tony_montana said:@Yardgames-Yes, I will elaborate IF I can speak freely without anyone taking rep points away from me because they are "offended" by what I believe or anyone ganging on me and harrasing me.
Yes, I don't care what people do personally. Want to be gay/lesbian? Fine. I just don't support it myself AND I don't support the marriage between gays. The reason for that is I myself believe in our almighty God who made marriage a sacred, holy thing between two people, that being a man and a woman. Marriage to me isn't just something that says two people are married. It's a gift from God. That being said, I don't support gay marriage because God Himself says, in the Bible, that gay activity of that kind is an abomination to Him.
So that's about it. Be gay if you want, but I don't support gay marriage. And once again, Ill state that I support prez.Bush's campaign to ban gay marriage. Do I hate gay people? Not at all. Like I stated in my other post in this thread, one of my favorite rock singers was Freddie Mercury(who was gay, by my understanding), and a friend of mine at school is gay.
Anyways, that's what I believe and Im sticking to it.
Speaking in the name of God is a way to follow morals you had not to set up formerly. But everyone follows guidelines looking for what is good or not, and either they build them themselves or accept other. So either churchgoers think these preconceived ideas are perfect or they think the authority of God is inescapable whatever they could have think. The second situation is even worse because they declare themselves irresponsible of what they do or think or see.. Tony kinda said "God told me the gay thing was wrong but also to love each other."Kratos said:This for me is the worst kinda of homophobic response, that self conceited hate for gays under the pretence of “liking” them ; “I don’t mind black people as long as they don’t serve me in shops or get into positions of political power and of course don’t have the same rights as us white folks”. You can coat it up anyway you want but that’s the bottom line (or at least how I’m viewing your posts).
Its already been pointed out that the ability to marry gives the couple basic rights; to act as next of kin, tax reduction etc, if marriage was purely a commitment then I might not be so pissed off about this, it’s the fact you are “rewarded” for being married, something which is denied to all gay couples by bigots. And yes you are a bigot before you object, the Bible says a lot of stuff, and I doubt you follow it all to the latter.
I can’t stand inequality of any kind, and just because you have a higher post count than me doesn’t give you the right to tell me to “screw off”, and you cant “be gay if you want” you don’t chose it, unlike the religion you are forcing on people who might not share your faith and thus not want to be constricted by it. You want to suppress people and hurt those who are just being themselves in the name of god, disgusting.
Wow, so well said. I agree with each word you wrote. But I don't understand why a moderator could feel the need to mod it...Deweyrules! said:I think one of the main problems is the interchangeable nature of the terms marriage and wedding/ wed. Marriage refers to the civil liberties and rights and the recognition of a couple in the eyes of the law having evolved from the religious term. The term wedding or to 'wed' someone or alternatively a marriage of 'holy matromony' refers to the religous arena. Therefore Tony (I don't want it to seem like anyones ganging up on you, I happen to disagree but it's the same way that I disagree with those who say Lost is a clever program ) I think you're possibly true in saying that gay people cannot have a wedding, however, I personally feel they should be able to marry- as this is political rather than religious.
I've separated my next point as it's possibly more controversial than previous comment (so please feel free to mod. it). If everything in the bible is interperated in its literal sense then surely you would in fact be somewhat xenephobic and against those of different religions and cultures? I personally am agnostic (I suppose Malcolm in fact says it best in 'malcolm dates a family'- 'I'm a hopeful agnostic' but I guess this is a kind of selfish religious belief. Finally, on a more frivillous note, if you're an atheist, how are you sworn in when testifying in a court of law?
Deweyrules! said:I know we're going away from TJ's intial intentions, but when you look at the frequent posters on this forum, everyone seems to be intelligent, thus they have very strong, generally well informed views, so debate and discussion on a wider level is inevitable.
I agree Alfista, religion is possibly the most controversial topic of them all, I think in recent years it has almost become taboo, but I think it's unfair to say Tony's response was intolerant, I think religion is a major influence on peoples thoughts and oppinions. Whether the values people hold seem anacronistic in today's society or not, it's evident that Tony is tolerant of peoples personal preferences and wants, so in turn we should also be tolerant of his- whether or not we agree with them.
The main reasoning behind gay marriage is the civil liberties that should be equal, which I think is right- although I wouldn't say I think everyone should be equal (but I'll explain that in a politics thread ).
Finally (if you've actually continued to read ) I don't think anyone should remove the rep points thing, just for a difference in oppinion, or a seemingly offensive post (it might just be a matter of misinterpretation) you may as well just respond to the post with your oppinion.
Deweyrules! said:Good, you absolutely should maintain your beliefs. I don't think you should change your values and beliefs jsut becuase I said I disagree, otherwise I'd be a complete hypocrite
Deweyrules! said:I think so long as everyone has morals engraned into them at a young age, as most do then that's all we need. Religion after all is a set of morals and rules. Society has simply adpated them to suit modern, more accepting way of life- it's a natural progression. Now that we have a new code of ethics and values, to many religion has become redundant, which I feel explains the apparant decline in religion (particuarly amongst those in our age group) in recent decades.
Alfista Junior said:Back to the actual topic, I'd like to ask Kratos to tell me why the gay marriage is so important to him. You know, maybe it's me, but I think: If I were gay, I won't give a damn about marriage. By the way I'm straight and I don't. I'd just like to have fair rights and to live in peace. It's just a question, because it's not easy to understand everything.
You said you wanted marriage to allow gay couples to feel identical. Don't you think the marriage should be the next step after the true tolerance? Or don't you think the concept of marriage has been conceived by straight and is for straight? Don't you think gays should celebrate their union the way they want, and maybe differently...
As I said before, a important part of the gay couples over here think the marriage is not for us. They prefer fighting for tolerance because they think imposing gay marriage could much more threaten the acceptation and tolerance people have regarding them. When you see demonstrators in the US with their signs "One man One woman" you could realize it leads to a come back of extremist thoughts...