Religious beliefs

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packer-backer

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In school we have to do this report thing about other peoples religions. I was kind of wondering what your religious beliefs are and this could kind of help me with my report. As a lot of you may know, I am a christian and its kind of hard to explain religious beliefs but we just believe that God is the creator of everything and we should strive in every way to be as close to him as possible. Since no human is perfect and commits crimes or as we call them sins we believe that God is the only one who can save us from these sins. The Bible is our religious book and teaches us what we need to know about God the father and his son Jesus Christ. What are your guys' beliefs to help me with this project.
 

yardgames

Retired Administrator
Firstly I would caution you about using material from these forums in your project; a lot of teachers will frown upon it.

I am technically Catholic, but don't really practice a religion. I don't even remember the last time I went to church. A lot of times it just seems goofy to believe in some "superior being" that probably doesn't exist anyway.

No offense to those who do believe, of course.
 

Emrysgirl

New member
As Sam said, it probably won't be a good idea to cite a MitM forum as your source for obvious credibility reasons. But I suppose you could use this as a basis for more research.

In name, I am a Hindu. In reality, I am agnostic. I'll explain what both mean (to me at least).

Hinduism...after typing and deleting what I typed for a few minutes, I realized that there are very few clear cut beliefs. Unlike the Judeo-Christian religions, there is no holy book. There are several religious writings, such as the Vedas and the Upanishads, but no one set book. So, there's a lot of disagreement (even more than in other religions) as to the exact beliefs.

It is a polytheistic religion, but some sects within the religion (emphasis on some, most don't) claim that all the gods are representations or different aspects of the same spirit. There are gods (or representations of the spirit according to the above mentioned sects) for almost everything and like with other ancient cultures, a lot of the events in the world are explained as interactions between the gods. The three main gods are Brahma (creation), Vishnu (maintainance) and Shiva (destruction)

Hindus (to my knowledge all sects) believe in reincarnation until the final release (Moksha). They believe that you have certain responsibilities (Dharma, Dharam). If you fulfill those, you will be reborn in a higher form; if you don't, in a lower form.

Hinduism is more of a culture than a religion. I take part in many of its customs, but more because I enjoy the tradition than because I believe in it. In my experience, many young urban Indians are that way. You take part in and defend the customs, but more for the sake of the dignity of tradition than for any firm convictions (that is there too, but less). If you didn't know already, its fun to wear pretty dresses, eat good food and chat with relatives for a few days.

Agnosticism is somewhere in between atheism and belief. To me, it means "I don't know, and I don't think it matters overmuch". People should do good things and act properly regardless of whether there is a god or not. Not much else to say about that because its a refrain from belief rather than a belief in itself.
 

packer-backer

New member
I'm not really directly copying it. Teachers said that we could do interviews on people to learn more about their religion. I sort of figured this was like a interview so I thought it would be interesting.
 

NeCoHo

Retired Mod
Like sam, I am a Catholic, but unlike him, I go to church every sunday (not as of late though, I wake up late every Sunday because I don't get to sleep till 2AM) And I don't eat meat on Fridays in Lent and all that. I wouldn't say I'm devout Catholic, but it's important in my life. I think humans tend to think in one way or another that that there is a being higher then us and that that being can explain stuff that we can't.
 

tjpeople

Site Administrator
Staff member
Im 100% atheist. Allways have been, brought up like that but have had if i wished lots of opportunities to find faith if i wished. For me just about all religion is flawed and is is way more toruble than its worth. You think back to wars? how many of them where a consequence of some religious difference?

I respect others peoples beleifs, but im more of a science kinda guy, and know thats there are clouds above us and then space and nothing much else between!

There are also other factors such as me being gay that makes religion not appealing, as well as many of its past policys and quite often right wing views.

I undewrstand why people are religius, they need as J said to explain things we cant, and they need to grasp onto something to rationalise there lives. But n my view, were just a bunch of cells that grow then die and thats about it.

I will finish on this quote :

'Religion is the opium of the masses' Karl Marx (btw the way i aint a socialist/communist just think the quote is very good)
 

Dabney

Deutscher Moderator
i do believe in "god" (but i consider it more as a godlike power which is everywhere around), but i can't stand the church. I don't need anybody who wnats to tell me what i'm supposed to believe. I believe whatever i want. Nevertheless i think the bible is one of the most important books in the world. So you see, it's kind of weird to talk about religion with me. And when i talk about it with my friends, they don't understand me either.
O, btw, officially i'm Catholic.
 

samboo1

New member
Im like Sam, on which im a catholic but i never go to church...well only with school. But thats just me...id never have different opinion of people just because of their religion. Its terrible when people are like that.:mad:
 

yardgames

Retired Administrator
There are some really interesting responses here. Regardless of whether packer-backer (sorry, can't remember your name:)) uses it in his report, I'm glad he asked the question.

It sorts of proves the point that MITM isn't a show for one denomination, and that you can believe in whatever you want--even if it's not the most popular opinion. It's amazing how many different beliefs there are, even in this one community. I suppose that's what makes it a community. And I'm glad everyone is so willing and able to respect others' differences as well. TJ made mention to wars as a result of religion. Wouldn't it be nice if grown men like Bush and Blair and Sharon and Hussein could accept people's differences as well as a few teens on the Internet?
 

packer-backer

New member
I feel like I have to say that I notice one thing that almost everybody said. They dont go to church. It kind of suprised that you guys said it because I NEVER go to church either and I'm the only person at my whole school that doesn't go to church. It's good to see I'm not the only one though.Talking about religious wars, I love how in America we have religious freedom which I think is why were thought as one of the greatest nations in the world. ( no offense to those in Europe or elsewhere)However just about all of my friends are christian, but I really can't really help that because I go to a christian school. and correct me if I'm wrong but isn't the catholic religion another form of the christian religion? I just heard that somewhere and thought I'd ask.( Oh and my name is CJ:) )
 

NeCoHo

Retired Mod
Yardgames said:
It sorts of proves the point that MITM isn't a show for one denomination, and that you can believe in whatever you want--even if it's not the most popular opinion. It's amazing how many different beliefs there are, even in this one community. I suppose that's what makes it a community. And I'm glad everyone is so willing and able to respect others' differences as well. TJ made mention to wars as a result of religion. Wouldn't it be nice if grown men like Bush and Blair and Sharon and Hussein could accept people's differences as well as a few teens on the Internet?

How very deep Sam. Very very true. The Crusades are a perfect example of this. Cursade means 'Holy War' and, thats what Europe did for, like, 300 years. It's amazing ho much a few average (but slightly strange (joking)) teens can sum up the world in one sentence: "Wouldn't it be nice if grown men like Bush and Blair and Sharon and Hussein could accept people's differences as well as a few teens on the Internet?"


packer-backer said:
and correct me if I'm wrong but isn't the catholic religion another form of the christian religion? I just heard that somewhere and thought I'd ask.

We studied world religions last week in my history class and I'll explain it like my teacher did:

Think of the Abrahamic (Judism, Christianity, Islam) religions as a tree. The first split, at approx 70AD made the tree into two branches, Judism and Christianity (at the time, there was only one christian religion: Catholisim (Catholic)) Then the tree split again, so it became Islam, Catholisim, and Judism. Then the Roman Empire split into the West and East. The west dominated by the pope (Rome's Bishop) and the pope (Constinople's Bishop) Two capitals, two popes, rght? Wrong! That's how the first split in Christianty came. Greek Orthodox, and Catholism. Then it split again, with Martin Luther, Lutherism, and again with the Prodestants, and then Baptists, and all sorts of different religions, all considered Christianity, but different all the way. I hope I didn't onfuse anyone too much. But that is the story of Christianity(summed up into a paragraph).
 

Emrysgirl

New member
tjpeople said:
Im 100% atheist.
My dad's an atheist. I toyed with atheism for a while, but I was 10 and my reasoning behind it wasn't very sound. Besides, my mother told me I was too young to decide - I suppose that's how most parents would react. A few years later, I thought about it again and ended up with agnosticism instead.

The argument that atheists give is that there is no scientific proof behind the existance of a god. But, if you base your decision just on science, the claim that there is no god is equally unproven. So, based on science, you can't really say anything at all aka agnosticism. In the end, atheism has to come from the gut, just as belief in god(s) does. Even with agnosticism, I doubt that anyone decides on it just because it's the scientific response (I know I didn't), but rather just because of the way they feel. Of course you could get into the whole paradox of science is based on the world around us and that might be an illusion blah, but that's too complicated for me (another reason I'm agnostic)...I suppose J. would know something of that.

tjpeople said:
Allways have been, brought up like that but have had if i wished lots of opportunities to find faith if i wished.
Too early in the morning:D?

tjpeople said:
For me just about all religion is flawed and is is way more toruble than its worth. You think back to wars? how many of them where a consequence of some religious difference?
I don't believe in religion either. Douglas Adams (who was an atheist - a radical atheist, as he put it) said something about God that is pretty much my view of religion:

"[Religion] used to be one of the best explanations we'd got, and we now have vastly better ones. [Religion] is no longer an explanation of anything, but has become something that requires an insurmountable amount of explaining."

With that in mind, it's hard to condemn religion as a whole because it used to be what science is today - a way to make sense of the world around you. And now its so much a part of culture and in so many differnt ways, that its hard to separate it from other things and again hard to classify it as a whole.

tjpeople said:
But n my view, were just a bunch of cells that grow then die and thats about it.
What about a deist god then:)?


tjpeople said:
'Religion is the opium of the masses' Karl Marx
I believe it's usually translated as opiate, not opium. The simpsons used a version of that line in their Catholic school ep...it was something realy goofy.

J. said:
That's how the first split in Christianty came. Greek Orthodox, and Catholism.
Do you know if the reasons behind the split were just political and economical or if there was actually a differance in theology?

J. said:
Then it split again, with Martin Luther, Lutherism, and again with the Prodestants, and then Baptists, and all sorts of different religions, all considered Christianity, but different all the way.
You mean Lutheranism? Wouldn't that be a branch of the Protestant church sice it did 'protest' against Catholocism?

Not that you need it, but I'll add a bit:

Luther split from the church b/c of corruption within the church and ideological differances such as celebacy of priests, which sacraments were legitimate, and biggest of all - Indulgances ie buying your way to heaven.

Next was either Henry VIII (English church - did that turn into Anglican?) or Calvin (Calvinism). Henry split from the church because he wanted an annulment from his wife. Calvin split based on his belief in predestination.

Those are the big ones. Beyond that, I don't think there are that many theological differances.
 

NeCoHo

Retired Mod
Emrysgirl said:
Do you know if the reasons behind the split were just political and economical or if there was actually a differance in theology?

It was both, I think, we didin't go that far into the religion thing, we went after the earlty ones, and were studing the Renassince now, so we haven't got to the other splits yet, I was just basing the splits on what I knew not from any educational teachings.

Emrysgirl said:
You mean Lutheranism? Wouldn't that be a branch of the Protestant church sice it did 'protest' against Catholocism?

Not that you need it, but I'll add a bit:

Luther split from the church b/c of corruption within the church and ideological differances such as celebacy of priests, which sacraments were legitimate, and biggest of all - Indulgances ie buying your way to heaven.

I think Luteranism was first. I'll have to finish this post later, I have to get ready for school.

Emrysgirl said:
Next was either Henry VIII (English church - did that turn into Anglican?) or Calvin (Calvinism). Henry split from the church because he wanted an annulment from his wife. Calvin split based on his belief in predestination.

Those are the big ones. Beyond that, I don't think there are that many theological differances.
 

Wemboy

New member
I'm an agnostic, trying and failing to become a fully committed atheist:). I say that because sometimes i do actually pray, but i regard this as an emotional response to my problems, whereas i strive to tackle issues by using reason, and logical progression (which makes me a believer in science, progress and the ideas of the Enlightenment). I was baptised into the Church of England as an infant, but i haven't been since i was young, except to sing carols on the odd christmas eve. I'm going to try and link this to MITM just in the spirit of the forums. When Dewey asks her about death in the funeral episode Lois says "That's it, you're dead", and thats pretty much what i believe. Because of this death scares me, (as it did Dewey!) but if i tried to seek comfort by telling myself that there was an afterlife, i think i'd just be forcing myself to believe something which i don't think is true, which is counter productive.

This leads me to Dewey's comments in the Daycare episode, which i don't remember exactly, but the main point is just to be as decent and loving as you can while you're still alive. In this way i think you can live on through your actions when you do die, and people will remember you as a good person.

My personal view is that religion is bad when it is used as a mechanism to control, or becomes dogmatic. Again this has some personal relevance, since like TJPeople i'm actually gay. But religion has the potential to be hugely beneficial if people would concentrate on the main teachings, which are more often than not, tolerance, love and spiritual fulfillment. This, in my opinion is something which runs much deeper than which God you believe in, or even if you believe in God at all, they can be seen more as universal goals for us as humans.
 

tjpeople

Site Administrator
Staff member
@ EmrysGirl, i dont understand what you meant but 'too early in the morning' :S

That whole athesist thing, well i was gunna go into the fasct that non - beilf is a belfif its slef, and so maybe i should correct my self, im sorta athesist depending on your view of it.

@Wemboy, very deep, i agree with you on those point, religion has beneifts, but those could have easily deveopled with out the bad stuff that came with it.
 

Kratos

New member
For the most part I accept religion is around, but its not something that I think is intrisically good. Sure a faith in god is a good thing to have if you want it, but as soon as you start depending on other humans to explain it to you that's when things get funny. Churches have different teachings on being gay for example, in the UK few have a huge problem with it, I remember when my friend went and somehow it was raised that two of the church members were gay, the vicar just winked and said not to tell the old folks. He didnt care, as long as they had a belief in god that was all that mattered. In the US churches can spread gay hate around and it's not questioned, maybe its because in the UK religion is in decline, people are almost begged to go, in the street we get hand outs etc... I should also point out loads of our churches in the main town have been converted into night clubs :eek: Honest they still have a church feel with the stain glass etc its cool.

Anyway, individual faith I say go for it, as soon as you start taking the bible or any holy book as a way to live, I advise you to stop and really read it and see how much you are ingnoring ;) i.e there is something in it about being able to own slaves and women shouldnt talk to men. Is it really fair to only follow certain parts and dismiss others?
 

yardgames

Retired Administrator
That's very true. People are awkward about the whole gay thing in the United States. I don't really understand why. To me, in 100 years, we'll look back at our bias against gays today and wonder why we were like that to gays as much as we wonder why we persecuted African Americans so much today. A few months back, some lunatics were actually trying to get an amendment added to the Constitution that prohibited gay marriage. To me, that's like saying you're not allowed to be Black, or that you can't have a dog for a pet, or that if you're left-handed, you're to be banished. Some people's ideas of equality don't make sense to me.
 

allison

New member
I believe in God, but that´s about it. I accept all kind of religions, but as most people here I don´t think that religions are necessarily a good thing. I think it´s kind of ironic that on the one hand people try to be good in order to get into heaven one day but on the other hand think that such thing as a holy war can be justified and is a good thing.
Plus the whole gay thing. I think if there is a God he likes all people the same regardless of their religious beliefs, sexual orientation etc. In my opinion it´s just not right to give people the feeling that they´re inferior because of what they are or what they believe in.
I never go to church. When I was younger maybe I would have gone, but my father didn´t want us to. Just like him his father was jewish and since he lived in Germany during the 2nd world war he was lucky to be alive after the war had ended. It was the same thing with my aunt, who was a little kid at this time, but I think this experience changed her life forever (even today she still seems to suffer from it). That´s why my father never wanted us to go to church and I think he would be very disappointed if we decided to become Christians. I don´t think that´s right because everyone should decide for themselves and as I said I accept all kinds of religious beliefs, but still I decided not to go to church.
 

Kratos

New member
Religion is always a difficult one to work out, I agree with what both of you have said…

I guess in a nut shell you can divide into in to a set of basic ideas… (Feel free to add any you can think of)

1) There really is a god, but he never fully revealed himself to humans, over time translations of books got mixed up, thus why there are so many diverse religions today.

2) Religion was a clever ploy invented in capitalist states (incidences of religion in past communist states is much lower) it was designed to keep people in order, there was always the chance of a revolution taking place if people on the bottom money rung decided to rebel. A promise of a reward for hard work kept people focused and not complaining all that much, while the rich had great lives.

3) Religion emerged as a way to explain the unexplainable, before science people had nothing, religion provides a simple way to explain things around you.


In a way I don’t think religion is ever intrinsically bad, for the most part it maintains the status quo, it keeps stability, gives people hope in times of need or when something happens beyond our control. Its when religion is pushed as a way to explain something that’s normally seen as wrong that problems are created… in the US for example, Bush’s party is only in power because of his religious stances. He likes to almost pretend that Jesus is talking to him and the voters (Christians at least) like that, it’s mind boggling that people base a vote simply on if the leader thinks abortion or gay marriage is right or wrong.

Religion in its advance effects is devious and sly; it’s used as a tool to cause wars and commit horrific crimes or in the name of god, when in fact it’s just a way to make money. It doesn’t take a genius to work out that Iraq has oil reserves, how long before Bush claims them as his own? ;)

I think its December this year… but in England gay couples can have the same legal rights as married straight people, next of kin rights, tax breaks etc Its difficult to place unless you know someone who is gay, or of course if you are gay yourself, suppose that Justin were to come out and wanted to marry his Boyfriend. Because (I expect:p ) most of you like Justin, you’d want him to be happy right? Its too easy to use the bible etc as a way to form moral codes, but when you apply its “rules” to real people it falls apart. It's why in a way anyone who preaches hate, must be a cold, cold hearted person indeed. :(
 

Dabney

Deutscher Moderator
Kratos said:
2) Religion was a clever ploy invented in capitalist states (incidences of religion in past communist states is much lower) it was designed to keep people in order, there was always the chance of a revolution taking place if people on the bottom money rung decided to rebel. A promise of a reward for hard work kept people focused and not complaining all that much, while the rich had great lives.

I disagree. There certainly weren't people who said: "Well, let's create a religion." Religions came into existing over a very long period, it was a process, not a single point of time. Those people just abused the existing religion by misinterpreting them and teaching them wrong (through the church. Again be careful: Don't mix up the terms religion and church)
 
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