Extinction

NeCoHo

Retired Mod
Speaking of astroids...

Scientists predict that we will have a 300 to 1 chance that an astroid will hit us in 2012

Spoiler for dooms day theroy, paranoid be warned:
But not an astroid, a planet. The planet's name to the sumerians, Nibiru, our name, Planet X, the tenth planet. That number before the spoiler text coincide with what the sumerians predicted as the end of days. The sumerians were the first civilization on this Earth with highly evolved in maths and sciences. They say in stone tablets that the "anunnaki"(those who come from the heavens to the Earth) came when Niburu collided with Earth, breaking it in half(suggesting that Earth was a much larger planet 6000 years ago). Nibiru completes it's orbit every 3,600 years. It's gravitational pull creates Earthquakes, Floods, Tsunamis and tha kind of stuff. Some say then Earth will become a member of a group of races of species of beings, others say it will explode. "
 

Malcolm

New member
Australopitecines are NOT humans, they are hominids all right, part of our same family, but humans are the members of genus Homo, that includes Homo sapiens, Homo erectus, Homo neandertalensis, Homo floresiensis etc.
And even so, we are not the same species as, for example, Homo neandertalensis. Therefore, talking about an entire group of animals, lets say sharks, hominids or jellyfish, as if they were a single species, is a mistake.

Dryopitecines were not the ancestors of "all primates, apes and humans". They were ONLY ancestors to apes and humans, but they were already primates themselves. I dont know what do you understand by primate, but they are an entire order of mammals including humans, apes, monkeys, lemurs, lorises, aye-aye etc.

Currently, the animal considered as the common ancestor of all primates is known as Purgatorius, and it lived 65 million years ago (thats right, at the very end of the Age of Dinosaurs). ;)
 

NeCoHo

Retired Mod
I'm pretty sure this would fit in here, if not in a new thread in the tv/video games/movie fourm:

The History Channel has a program on evloution called "Ape to Man"

Here's an excerpt:
The story of a century-and-a-half of tireless research that led humans to discover their ape-like beginnings. In this 2-hour special, we review several stories of discovery, each a crucial turning point in the understanding of our pre-historical past. Our heroes are the men and women who uncovered the clues, often after backbreaking and obsessive labor in some of the most hostile environments on Earth. Their stories are told with dramatic reconstructions of their expeditions and tantalizing glimpses of the lives of the ancestral humans they uncovered, together with newspaper headlines, news reports and, where available, archive footage and expert interviews. In the course of this enthralling journey, We uncover the stunning facts, wild theories, and compelling conclusions unearthed by pioneering investigators of human origins. This is the story of how 150 years of sweat and toil brought our extraordinary origins into the light. TVPG cc

It's on the History Channel on monday, August 8, at 01:00 GMT and 17:00 GMT (daylight savings time not included in times)
 

arach

New member
@Malcolm

You don't get me, right?

What I wanted to say is that it's NOT the fate of every species to die out. Some of them evolve, like primates became humans millions of years ago.

They didn't extinct, they just disappeared over thousands of years because they changed entirely.

Like 500 years ago or so, people were much smaller than nowadays. Of course we can say that these "dwarves" died out. But the truth is that they grew taller from generation to generation.

You are acting like the time of every species comes every million years. But it's just a matter of definition what we call Homo erectus, H. habilis or H. Sapiens. We could also summarize them to one species called "homo can walk on two feet" or so. This is just definition, it has nothing to do with extinction. Homo erectus didn't extinct. The species CHANGED over millions of years like the little people from 500 years ago grew taller from generation to generation.

So why the hell should our time as species now come? Well it could come, when someday, lets say 10000 years from now, people have the strange idea to suddenly call themselves Homo Techniciens. Okay then, Homo Sapiens doesn't exist anymore. Extinct, or what?

Hope you are getting me now. This:

Originally Posted by Malcolm
The first and most important is that we will not last forever. No species can avoid extinction.

is simply not true.
 

yardgames

Retired Administrator
Re: @Malcolm

We all have different ideas and opinions, and it's great that we share them, but don't get too forceful about injecting your own ideas on anyone; its tough for a person to unlearn something they always thought was true.
 

Emrysgirl

New member
Is this debate over? Well, I'll type anyway:Angry::D. As, Malcolm said, none of us will really ever know. So, without taking things too seriously and in the spirit of meaningless debate:

arach said:
Secondly, Homo Sapiens would not die because of another Ice Age. As I already pointed out, we survived one (the one that ended 10.000 years ago, remember?). We now also have the technology to build bunkers and knit blankets if it's too cold for us. ;) etc etc...
And even if there would be a natural disaster in an enourmous way, and it would kill millions of people, it would surely be a tragic coincidence, but humans will live on. There are thousand millions of us, all over the planet.
While I agree with the basic point that you're making, I think that's going a bit too far. Even with modern technology, humans certainly aren't immune to weather. It isn't unimaginable that the entire human population will be wiped out by severe climatic changes. But, given technology, it is true that humans would be one of the LAST species to die out. In this case, almost every other species, and certainly all the big ones we think of, would have to be wiped out before humans are. So, to refute Malcolm's original post, it becomes a doomsday scenario that makes the fate of humans in particular irrelevant and the question of a succeeding master species absurd (because evolution will start all over again and the results are far from predictable). The same thing applies for your other two scenarios.

yardgames said:
Punctuated Equilibrium free article from Encarta:
http://encarta.msn.com/encyclopedia...lution.html#p76
Thanks, but I'm still confused. I understand what it is and am not doubting it occurance. I just don't get why. Like I said earlier, perhaps it's a chain reaction.

J. said:
But the change is made so slowly, we hardly notice it. our air is poisioned, it is bad, all the stuff that isn't oxygen. We can breathe it, can't we? more methene, sulfur and all the other bad stuff is released in the air every day. e still live, even if those are bad for humans. Slowly, we will turn to "everything but oxygen" breathers instead of "oxygen" breathers.
Actually, judging by the huge jumps in asthma rates, I'm not very sure that we have evolved to deal with polution. It may be more a matter of not having reached the threshold yet.

And how much are we actually evolving that much? That's why I was so concerned about punctuated equilibrium. Maybe all these changes are nothing compared to what's coming. We're in a pretty lulled/static period now. Maybe we're headed for drastic changes soon.

But, I still like your and Viking's point about evolution vs. extinction. I guess this part of the debate boils down to if we would consider the new species to be a replacement or a succession. And, the term human is not really species specific.

arach said:
Like 500 years ago or so, people were much smaller than nowadays. Of course we can say that these "dwarves" died out. But the truth is that they grew taller from generation to generation.
No. First, the primary reason for the enormous increase in height is nutrition. But, I'll say that was just a bad example and continue. External changes such as height, eye color etc. are quite different from separate species. What determines if two animals are part of the same species is if they can produce viable offspring. Because of this narrowed requirement and punctuated equilibrium, the change would supposedly occur over a relatively short period of time and probably due to a mutation. It would be a different species. Humans would be extinct. But, to support your point, would the genetic specifics matter? Or would the new species merely be seen as a successor?

yardgames said:
Anything that ruins our computer network can kill us. We have technology, as has been pointed out. But we've become too dependent on the technology and without it we will die.
1) Like I said earlier, we're talking about the enitre human race here, not just developed countries. Not everyone is that dependant on technology.
2) Even computer dependant countries would survive. Even though they might be out of touch with 'the old ways', detailed records exist of the industrial revolution etc. They could rebuild that.

.: (.: = therefore - I find that a lot of Americans get confused by the symbol) We would NOT have to live like cavemen. That takes care of Malcolm's point about large species too.

Malcolm said:
The one that appeared a million years ago was Homo antecesor, not sapiens.
That makes much more sense. In fact, I've heard that before.

J. said:
Scientists predict that we will have a 300 to 1 chance that an astroid will hit us in 2012
Wasn't there one sometime ago that had a 60 to 1 shot. I remember they were following some asteroid very carefully. Maybe that one turned away finally. Again, though, technology would make our situation different from that of the dinosaurs and we would be one of the last species to die out. In which case,...I've said it enough times.
 

NeCoHo

Retired Mod
Emrysgirl said:
Wasn't there one sometime ago that had a 60 to 1 shot. I remember they were following some asteroid very carefully. Maybe that one turned away finally. Again, though, technology would make our situation different from that of the dinosaurs and we would be one of the last species to die out. In which case,...I've said it enough times.
There is another astroid, it's 200-300 years off with a 38 to 1 chance of hitting.

But by then, we should be masters of the solar system, controling everything, and people livng on every planet, and Earth being the capital planet ruled by a 300 year old emperor (he was the one who unified the Earth, and his scientists created all sorts of live-longer serums). And he brought........ Wait, that's just my fantasy for the future of the world. Heh heh... never mind...:D
 

packer-backer

New member
I cant remember who said it but somebody said we are going through global warming right now so you dont see how we can have an ice age. We watched a video in school thats saying that global warming will actually cause the next ice age because global warming will make all the glaciers melt somehow stopping the flow of the ocean which will very easily create the next ice age most likely within the next 200 - 500 years.
 

packer-backer

New member
But theres also many other things that could happen besides the ice age. Thats just the one that is most likely to happen right now.
 
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