Reese - stupid or not stupid, that is the question?

admin

Retired Administrator
Emrysgirl said:
@admin maybe I misunderstood the whole credit card thing. I'll admit I've never had one. Please explain:).

@GKMegan That's what I'm saying: all the examples of smartness you've given show he's sensitive and creative, but not smart.


@admin In Tutoring Reese, I wasn't refering to the Geo class, I was reffering to the math problem that Malclm was helping him with. And Malcolm tutors on a regular basis (people like Nikki), so I assume he's some good.


I assume you mean "isn't". That's the thing. His success (the A and knowing all the answers to get them worng) says nothing about his stupidity or smartness, only his dedication.
Yeah, thanks for that I meant isn't! Although I think dedication is required some basic intelligence is required, even if not a lot!

As Hal said in "Hal Sleepwalks" Reese is a normal kid, of normal intelligence - and I am inclinde to believe that is true.

With credit cards AFAIK, you basically buy stuff and the bank will pay for it. At the end of the month the bank will send you a bill and then you paying by direct debt or cheque for all the things you owe that month.
What Reese was doing, was paying for that credit card bill using another credit card - and basically playing the credit card companies off against each other! It is very difficult to do, as if you miss a payment there is a high interest rate - but there are many people who do it in the UK - it is a foolish thing to do, but certainly not impossible! :D
 

MITM-Fan

New member
Emrysgirl said:
Smartness refers to academics, maybe not rote book learning, but academics none the less (being able to make connections and draw conclusions).
Yeah, that's what it takes to prove that you're SMART but not being a professor or something doesn't mean you're spupid...maybe you just don't want to be a professor. ;) [It sounds kinda strange but if you think about that one it should be clear.]

Emrysgirl said:
I'm going to go ahead and disagree with all of you (or atleast the posts I've read). Reese is stupid!
I do think so, too! But without keeping an eye on the academics. You can be very smart without the privilege of any higher education, there are people out there who just can't afford this or they just don't want to take the next level because they think it's a waste of time and rather like going to work. Ok, this doesn't refer to Reese in any particular, he IS stupid but he does so many things which are, indeed, stupid. Well, of course smart people do stupid things as well (just take a look on Malcolm, he didn't always acted like someone with such a high IQ ) but they are considered as being clumsy and not stupid. But for Reese, he does stupid things, isn't aware of any consequences (or just doesn't care) and he doesn't learn of his behaviour..nor is he aware of the simplest principles of allday life. He knows how doing something...but not the consequences of it...like...using the credit card, sunbathing without protection for HOURS, keeping caterpillars in a box which became "surprisingly" TOO many butterflies floating around, buying a swimming pool just simply that, fooling around in the most useless activities instead of studying...the list goes on and on...Reese IS stupid. (maybe we should make up a list of the most stupid things Reese has ever done )

Of course there are rumours that he could have faked his stupidity to be actually a clever boy (creative, innovative etc...) and just hid his cleverness. But goddamn, he must be very good in hiding that and doing such kind of things as listed above. :D


Emrysgirl said:
That doesn't mean that being stupid makes you a worse human being, just suited for something else.
Actually I think the profession of a butcher suited him very well. :p

:cool:
 

NeCoHo

Retired Mod
Reese seems to prosper when he is alone (Reese's apartment). His distrations are Malcolm, Dewey, Jamie, Hal, and Lois.

When you think about it, they are very distracting, aren't they?
Malcolm critizes, Dewey has a huge "cuteness factor", Reese is always trying to make Jamie a star, Hal is too fun sometimes, and Lois just can't find any good in Reese.
 

allison

New member
@Emrysgirl:

Though I think you made some good points I have to disagree on some things. I think sensitivity HAS something to do with intelligence. It requires intelligence to figure out other people´s feelings. I don´t think a person who is as stupid as sawdust cares a lot about other people. Maybe I´m wrong, but that´s what I think. And maybe Reese isn´t good at maths, but there are lots of people who just don´t understand it, but still can be intelligent. Brains just work differently. There are people who are very good at maths but can´t write a grammatically correct sentence (ok, I´m exaggerating now, but I think you know what I´m trying to say):D You know, not even Einstein was good at maths. I agree on what MITM Fan said, too. Some people are capable of becoming a doctor or something, but they just don´t want to.
Reese can be VERY stupid, that´s true. But regardless of his stupitity when it comes to school or some other things, I still don´t think he´s totally stupid. Whenever he really wants to achieve something, he ususally does. If he sees a chance of taking advantage of his actions, he can be smart.
And another thing about Reese that makes me think he isn´t THAT stupid is that he THINKS (or knows) that he´s stupid. I don´t think that really stupid people consider themselve stupid.
He also found out that Malcolm sees the school shrink. (So he didn´t only realize he can smell his own breath:D , but also that there was something wrong with Malcolm).
And he was the one who wanted to get Malcolm grounded in "Malcolm vs Reese" so that Malcolm couldn´t go to the wrestling match. Of course all these things don´t make him a genius, but I just think he isn´t as stupid as most people think.
Smartness does definitely refer to academics in a way, but not entirely.
I wonder why the Krelboynes, who are very smart, don´t always realize that people think they´re weird. Malcolm does realize that, but what about Dabney and Lloyd? There is definitely also such thing as "social intelligence", which most of the Krelboynes don´t have.
So people can be intelligent in different ways. And even if Reese definitely acts silly most of the time and sure isn´t the brightest kid, I have to agree with admin that he isn´t THAT stupid.
 

Emrysgirl

New member
Oh boo... I want to reply to these posts, but I have to study for Chem:mad:. Well, tomorrow:). I'll be FREE, FREE...oh, wait...ACT:(.
 

APK

New member
I think the question of Reese's intelligence, or lack of, depending on where you stand on this matter, is a tough one, because there seem to be mixed hints throughout the show, some which imply he's incredibly stupid, and others that imply that he may be more intelligent than we give him credit for.

I agree with what people said that when Reese puts his mind to something, he can seem quite bright, i.e. when he's thinking up some way to cause trouble - I'm thinking here of the episode "Smunday" when he adds paint to the trolley so it will add some "collateral damage to the neighbours" or something like that. I've also heard that as the series has progressed, he seems to have become quite the talented chef.

However, I do think that Reese also tends to come off as quite stupid in terms of academic achievement, and working things out for himself. One reason for this may be because of who we have to compare him too. Malcolm is a genius, Dewey is very bright, and Francis is no idiot. Lois is pretty smart; I think Hal can be a bit of an idiot at times, but I think that's more down to his vaguely immature, childlike persona.

We also have ourselves to compare to Reese. Obviously, I don't know anything about anybody here, but I would assume that most, if not all, of us most of the time get good grades in school, with maybe some of us consistently scoring excellent grades. The examples of Reese's stupidity in regards to schoolwork and the ability to work things out for himself could be enhanced in our eyes, because we have a whole array of mostly intelligent people to compare Reese with. If Reese was surrounded by a load of airheads, he might come across as the brightest of the lot.

I also think that Reese, on a subconscious level, may not even want to be seen as smart. He's seen the label that the Krelboyne kids have. As Malcolm said in the first episode, "Around here, being smart is exactly like being radioactive." This is just speculation, but maybe sometimes Reese makes himself appear less intelligent than he really is, because he is scared of anyone thinking he might actually have an average (or, in some cases, even slightly above average) talent or intellect. He could see intelligence as coming hand in glove with weirdness and being ostracised from other kids; therefore he chooses not to apply himself or advance his intellect.

Having said that, I do reiterate, that in areas where schoolwork is concerned, although Reese may be holding himself back, I still think that he hasn't got a great deal of scope and talent in those areas. I think if he really, really did some good, solid work he might be capable of getting some Cs. However, in areas such as cooking, and planning mischief, he definitely seems to be quite bright. But compared to schoolwork, I'm not sure these talents can be seen to be balanced out, so Reese seems more stupid than clever, even though he is talented at several things.

Has Reese's sporting prowess ever been explored in the series? I haven't seen much of it in the first season, but he seems to be quite strong, and he played hockey in the street with the other kids in the episode "Rollerskates." Maybe the area of sport is one of his strong points. Then that would bring to light the stereotypical "dumb jock" image that seems to be explored quite a lot, although most people who are good at sports are perfectly capable in academic subjects and are very good at those too.
 

mariposa22

New member
I really don't think that Reese is stupid, just that he feels that he can't live up to his brother Malcolm' intelligience, and that if he tried to "be smart," then everyone would make fun of him. So, he feels safer just being stupid, and everyone knowing where he stands.
 

yardgames

Retired Administrator
It's a good point. The earliest episode I can think of where Reese acknowledges and basically accepts he's stupid is when his grandpa gives him the live grenade in The Grandparents, and it seems like from this point on, everyone, Reese included, just expects Reese to be stupid.
 

MITM18

New member
Just wondering, how was he "stupid" in that scene again?


By pulling the gernade lock activating the gernade?
 

yardgames

Retired Administrator
He and Grandpa race into the kitchen, and start screaming. Malcolm asks what's wrong, and Reese says Grandpa gave him a live granade. Malcolm says something to the effect of, "Oh my god, you gave Reese a live grenade? He's a complete idiot!" And Reese responds with, "He's right, I am....I'm really stupid." At which time Reese throws the grenade to Malcolm, who throws it in the refrigerator.
 

MITM18

New member
Nah I dont think that means he thinks he is an idiot, people at crazy/stressful times say stupid things.

I just think he knows no better since he is influenced by the people around him like Hal and Francis.
 

Emrysgirl

New member
All right. I finally have some time to reply to the points.

Note: If I end abruptly, it's because my STARS mentor walked in and I'm pretending to work.:D

admin said:
As Hal said in "Hal Sleepwalks" Reese is a normal kid, of normal intelligence - and I am inclinde to believe that is true.
1) I interpreted it as normal compared to Malcolm i.e. Reese is less below normal than Malcolm is above.
2) That's normal to Hal. I don't know if that's saying much
3) Parents always expect their children to less intelligent than them (b/c they don't have experience blah blah). By that standard, Reese may be normal.

admin said:
What Reese was doing, was paying for that credit card bill using another credit card - and basically playing the credit card companies off against each other!
But eventually, you'll be left with one giant bill. And even considering how slow they are, the companies wil eventually catch up. It happened in the show itself. Reese was supposed to talk to the supervisor. He would have been denied the credit card.

MITM-FAN said:
Yeah, that's what it takes to prove that you're SMART but not being a professor or something doesn't mean you're spupid...maybe you just don't want to be a professor. ;) [It sounds kinda strange but if you think about that one it should be clear.]
I phrased it wrong. I was putting academics against humanities. Maybe academic ability would be more to the point (no, still not quite). I meant exactly what you explained later. (Oh my God! I almost typed "please pull over all the cards from the 2A" - :eek: policy, I miss it so much)

J. said:
Reese seems to prosper when he is alone (Reese's apartment). His distrations are Malcolm, Dewey, Jamie, Hal, and Lois.
His roommates seemed pretty distracting. Besides, as I said in my previous post, by this point, he'd be taking pretty low level courses where all you need to do is put a little bit of effort in.

allison said:
think sensitivity HAS something to do with intelligence. It requires intelligence to figure out other people´s feelings. I don´t think a person who is as stupid as sawdust cares a lot about other people.
To some extent, yes. It does take intelligence to figure out more complex feelings. But, not at the level that Reese uses it, and not just to be nice. Even cats and dogs can tell how a person is feeling and they respond accordingly (if they're nice cats and dogs:D ).

allison said:
And another thing about Reese that makes me think he isn´t THAT stupid is that he THINKS (or knows) that he´s stupid. I don´t think that really stupid people consider themselve stupid.
Well, yes. But that's REALLY stupid people. Even I don't think Reese is THAT stupid.

allison said:
He also found out that Malcolm sees the school shrink
So he followed him. It doesn't take much intelligence to do that.

allison said:
There is definitely also such thing as "social intelligence"
That's social skills or awareness. I consider that as separate from intelligence. I'm not saying that that doesn't take brain power, I just think that it's not very related to intelligence. And I think the Krelboynes do realize that they're weird. That's partly why so many of the have "dentist's appointments". They just don't know how to be normal.

Maybe this should be 2 posts instead of 1.

To be continued...
 

Emrysgirl

New member
...continued

Doc Brown said:
I'm thinking here of the episode "Smunday" when he adds paint to the trolley so it will add some "collateral damage to the neighbours"
Ok, you win on that point. That WAS smart.

Doc Brown said:
One reason for this may be because of who we have to compare him too.
Actually, I think most of us would be comparing him to stupid people we know in our own lives.

Doc Brown said:
If Reese was surrounded by a load of airheads, he might come across as the brightest of the lot.
Like in the army eps?:)

Doc Brown said:
However, in areas such as cooking, and planning mischief, he definitely seems to be quite bright.
Yes, but as I said before, that's separate (I really can't spell that word!) from intelligence.

Doc Brown said:
I also think that Reese, on a subconscious level, may not even want to be seen as smart.
Not smart, ok. But why would he want to be seen as stupid? He's as much of an outcast as the Krelboynes are. Same for mariposa22's comment

MITM18 said:
Just wondering, how was he "stupid" in that scene again? By pulling the gernade lock activating the gernade?
That's proof of it, yes.

MITM18 said:
I just think he knows no better since he is influenced by the people around him like Hal and Francis.
But he also has Malcolm, Dewey and Lois to influence him. Besides, I don't think Hal or Francis would have done something that stupid...at least not UNintentionally.
 

allison

New member
MITM18 said:
Nah I dont think that means he thinks he is an idiot, people at crazy/stressful times say stupid things.

I just think he knows no better since he is influenced by the people around him like Hal and Francis.
I agree. And I think it that situation he was neither stupid nor intelligent, but if I had to decide I´d say he even was intelligent. He just wanted to get rid off the grenade and when Malcolm said "You gave Reese a life grenade and he´s a total idiot" Reese saw his chance so he said "Yes I am. I shouldn´t have it, anymore."
I don´t even think that pulling the grenade lock was really stupid. How could he know that it still "worked"? That was more stupid of his grandpa.

But I can think of a situation when he really thought he is stupid. When Jackie and him were in the driver´s ed car he said "Just because I hate you, it doesn´t mean I´m not sorry. I didn´t mean to get you into this. It´s just that I´m not very smart."
Or when he wanted to team up with Jamie because he thought he´s stupid, too (poor Reese, in the end he was outsmarted by the BABY) :D And he said "maybe they´ll do something horrible to us and we won´t even understand it."

I´d like to copy one of Emrygirl´s comments, but for some reason it doesn´t work (maybe I´m too stupid now) :D
But I´m refering to the social intelligence now:
You are right, they know they´re weird. But sometimes they really just behave silly without realizing it. If Reese does something like that we think he´s stupid (like when he does something and laughs in that goofy way).

And you said he´s an outcast because of his stupidity. I really don´t think so. I think he´s an outcast because people think he´s mean. But if he behaves like a "normal" person people like him (e.g Wendy, Alison and I think that even Stevie thinks he´s ok).

I don´t know if he wants to be either smart or stupid, but it could be true that his family underestimates his intelligence so much that he really is convinced that he´s stupid and doesn´t believe in himself at all. It´s really true, if people around you think about you in a special way you start thinking they are right, even if they´re not.
Teachers tend to do things like that. If someone usually gets good grades but did pretty bad on one test he maybe still gets a better grade than a bad student would (I really know that from my past experience)
And I remember an episode (I think it was Traffic Ticket) where Reese said something pretty smart and his family starred at him. Then he said "What? It´s not?" They always expect him just to do or say stupid things so he gets pretty insecure.

I really don´t want to say that Reese is smart, because I don´t even think he´s supposed to be. But I´m sure he would appear smarter if people gave him a chance. That´s why I hate prejudices and clichees. People have a special opinion of someone or something and it´s very hard to convince them they´re wrong.
 

samboo1

New member
Just like most people in this thread i'm going to say that he is'nt as dumb as people think and one word to describe him is underestimated, i think.
 

yardgames

Retired Administrator
That's a good word to use. We saw in Buseys Take a Hostage that he can do stuff if he wants to; I just think he doesn't see teh point of schoolwork. Sometimes I don't see the point of it.
 
Top