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Thread: Who's smarter? Dewey or Malcolm?

  1. #21

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    For a "motivational speech", Lois seemed very sincere about what she was saying. She even defied Malcolm to tell her he couldn't do it. I do believe her little rant was more meaningful than an attempt to boost her son's ego.
    We will of course never know how Malcolm will manage in adulthood. But we can guess. Also, for a "bookworm", he sure seems able to find the time to do other things with his life.

    Dewey's genius isn't merely artistically inclined. There is a lot to be said about someone who can fool people twice their years and always having a backup plan without missing a beat.



  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alle View Post
    For a "motivational speech", Lois seemed very sincere about what she was saying. She even defied Malcolm to tell her he couldn't do it. I do believe her little rant was more meaningful than an attempt to boost her son's ego.
    I really think you have it backwards. If you take her speech literally then that means it is silly and unrealistic. The point is exactly to give him an ego boost. It may be counterintuitive since he comes off as arrogant sometimes but that is what he needs since he has no confidence. The whole episode up to that point is about how Malcolm is going to settle for things in life rather then go for what he really wants. This isn't even the first time Lois sees Malcolm's confidence problem and tries to encourage him. I'm not sure why people think this is something new in the finale! The only thing new was that Malcolm grows up and listens to her.

    AS for Dewey I'm just pointing out his intelligence is clearly different then Malcolm. You know the whole left-brain right-brain thing. It is really impossible to compare the 2 and say which is smater since they fit into totally different categories. Clearly Malcolm gets A's in 'book' subjects while Dewey does things like compose plays and music. Is Einstein smarter then Mozart? It is an impossible question.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by MalcolmFun View Post
    I really think you have it backwards. If you take her speech literally then that means it is silly and unrealistic. The point is exactly to give him an ego boost. It may be counterintuitive since he comes off as arrogant sometimes but that is what he needs since he has no confidence. The whole episode up to that point is about how Malcolm is going to settle for things in life rather then go for what he really wants. This isn't even the first time Lois sees Malcolm's confidence problem and tries to encourage him. I'm not sure why people think this is something new in the finale! The only thing new was that Malcolm grows up and listens to her.
    I disgaree, hugely. It was not simply an ego boost. Made all the more clear by the family's complete belief in what she was saying. Their almost shock at Malcolm being so out of touch with his own abilities and path in life. It's the whole point of Lois' "look me in the eye and tell me you can't do it." And Malcolm's tell-all silence. His family is right. Anything he does he will be amazing at it.

    As for Dewey, it's difficult to tell who is more intelligent. Don't discount Dewey as purely artistic intelligence. He was able to teach the Busey's, as well as recall plenty of scientific facts Malcolm had told him over the years.

  4. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by MalcolmFun View Post
    I really think you have it backwards. If you take her speech literally then that means it is silly and unrealistic. The point is exactly to give him an ego boost. It may be counterintuitive since he comes off as arrogant sometimes but that is what he needs since he has no confidence. The whole episode up to that point is about how Malcolm is going to settle for things in life rather then go for what he really wants. This isn't even the first time Lois sees Malcolm's confidence problem and tries to encourage him. I'm not sure why people think this is something new in the finale! The only thing new was that Malcolm grows up and listens to her.

    AS for Dewey I'm just pointing out his intelligence is clearly different then Malcolm. You know the whole left-brain right-brain thing. It is really impossible to compare the 2 and say which is smater since they fit into totally different categories. Clearly Malcolm gets A's in 'book' subjects while Dewey does things like compose plays and music. Is Einstein smarter then Mozart? It is an impossible question.
    Lois' lofty goals always seem unrealistic, but there you go. If her pep talk to Malcolm was a spur of the moment confidence enhancer, then why was everyone in the family bar Malcolm aware of this. You could say that they were acting along with her, but I have my doubts. We don't know if Malcolm will become President. Perhaps your right, and he may dispense with politics altogether and probably might come to work for NASA some day. I confess that before I saw "Graduation", I surmised that a scientific career was in his future. But if you still think that might be the case with him, then all power to you. We can at least agree that whatever he plans to do with his life, it will be the best thing for him.

    Malcolm and Dewey sure do have different interests. My main point that Dewey has the upper hand intellectual-wise is that he can manipulate and outfox Malcolm and make it look easy. Dewey, at the very least, is gifted with more cunning and common sense. If he was the more scientifically minded, and Malcolm was the musician, my opinion would remain the same. It doesn't matter who's good at what, Malcolm was often gullible enough to fall for Dewey's bullsh*t time and again and never once did he learn anything from that experience. Education-wise. Who can say? Malcolm's progress was the better documented of the two. We know very little about Dewey's performance. The best documented case was when he was wrongfully transfered to the Busey Class for at least a year. Although despite this, I think he seemed to manage to obtain the kind of homework that would be handed out in a more advanced class than the one he was relegated to. But like I say, Malcolm more often than not walks guilelessly into whatever Dewey has in store for him. What does that tell you?

  5. #25
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    warning this has slight spoilers if you didnt see the end

    Quote Originally Posted by Gouki View Post
    . It's the whole point of Lois' "look me in the eye and tell me you can't do it." And Malcolm's tell-all silence. His family is right. Anything he does he will be amazing at it.
    You are making my point. In that speech you can substitue anything in you want...President, astronaunt, CEO, inventor, computer programmer....it doesnt matter at all or change the plot. The fact she said President of the USA instead of something more mundane just proves my point. The exact point is to make him realize "Anything he does he will be amazing at it" because up to that point he was ready to sell out like cheap $%$@#$ at every single chance he gets (not just in this episode either).

    Malcolm always hides what he is thinking from the other characters but never in seven years of this show does Malcolm lie to the audience when he talks to the camera. I don't see why most people don't believe him in this episode when he tells us Harvard is his dream school and that is what HE WANTS to do but then buys the BS he sells to the other characters that he is happy to throw that away in a 2 second decision. Lois and the family all knew this. It was only Malcolm who wasn't realizing he was selling out.

    Think about this question to see my point: If the plot about money was gone and Malcolm was guaranteed into Harvard then what would he have told the guy offering the job? Everying else upto this point suggests he would have told the guy to get lost. He only was ready to agree because he was selling out, playing it safe and not confident he can get what he wants in life (what he just turned to the camera and told us he wants to do with his life!). By the end of the episode all that has happened is Lois has put him back on track to what he said he wanted to do with his life, and he seemingly recognizes this and acknowleges her. (that is what is new and indicates he is becoming an adult here.)



    I don't think there is really disagreement about what different talents Dewey has compared to Malcolm. The question is just how do you quantify and rate intellegence in diffent areas. I don't even think being clever vs being naive even falls into the category of "intelligence". That is better described as common sense or street smarts.
    Last edited by MalcolmFun; Jun 1, 2007 at 02:11 AM.

  6. #26

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    So what you're saying is that beneath that jazz about aiming for the presidency, was an underlying message that he should work hard for everything he trys his hand at instead of excepting a six-figure job position, that will compel him to become jaded, lazy and half-assed at everything he does? Seems plausible I suppose. Although, during that scene in "Graduation" I recall Lois saying that as President, Malcolm will "be the only one in that position to ever give a crap about people like us." Also, Malcolm displayed disbelief at Lois' mentioning of his notional future in the White House. If Lois' intention was to both reassure her son of his potential and make him aware that he could have a greater future beyond what he could have achieved if he accepted that job offer, then she could have said it without resorting to some complex euphemism. I must say that you are the only one I've heard from that has proposed this theory. Sound as it may seem, there was still no mistaking what they were talking about. So you'll forgive me if I still don't agree. I'm not saying that Malcolm Will be President. Whatever career path he follows, he will make his family proud.

    All those times Dewey tricked and bamboozled Malcolm, you would think that he would have seen what was coming, or like I've said before, learned from the experience that his younger brother can't be trusted. I mean Malcolm is himself pretty capable of second-guessing and manipulation. But any time he had tried some stunt with Dewey, it has often backfired on him. I don't think he has realized that his brother is far removed from the young kid he used to bully and terrify. In my opinion, anyone who doesn't learn from their mistakes deserves to suffer for it. In "Blackout", everyone except Dewey had some kind of scheme in motion. After the frustration of having his right to choose dinner was waived, he learned what everyone was up to, and drugged their food. Even before they passed out, no one suspected what Dewey was up to. In "A.A.", after realising that torturing Dewey no longer had the desired effect it once did, Reese and Malcolm tried to butter him up, thinking that with this new treatment, he would readily surrender the spare key. But Dewey wasn't so stupid to think that their attitude had truely changed. So he lied to them about swallowing the key. Of course, after they forced him to sh*t it out, Malcolm and Reese went sifting through the bowl, while Dewey took the key from its real hiding place and went off joyriding. Those are just two examples.
    Last edited by Alle; Jun 12, 2007 at 11:59 PM.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alle View Post
    she could have said it without resorting to some complex euphemism. .
    I understand she pretty clearly states exactly what he is going to do with his life. I understand a casual viewing you can easily accept that at face value. I don't understand why you would buy that if you watched the show for seven years.
    1)it is in Lois' nature to be over the top just to make a point
    2)it is in Malcolm's nature to not listen to Lois until she does something extreme to shock him
    3)why are you accepting the dialigoue of THESE CHARACTERS at simple face value, especially when they are yelling and emotional and covered in manure and have a histroy of hyberbole and over the top diatribes!?

    Malcolm clearly tries to get the other characters to believe something different then what he tells the camera(us). Which do you believe? Why would he ever lie to us? The whole mechanism of him talking to the camera was always to tell us what is in his head since this doesn't always match what he does and says. If you don't believe Malcolm when he says he dreams of making it to Harvard that means you think for some reason in the last episode the writers suddenly changed the whole formula of the show. What is more likely that he legitimately changes his mind (on a whim!) or that he gave into his stated fears, assummed he was screwed (as usual) and sold out?

    It is pretty clear to me. i'm still shocked longtime fans of the show don't pick up on this immediatly and instead think she runs his life forever. If you believe the rediculous fan consensus that Lois "won" and is going to run his life forever then his graduation speech makes absoloutly no sense. He would have stuck it to her as usual and made a disgruntled speech quoting a rap artist. That is the opposite of what happened. He ends up where he wanted at the end and gave a speech saying the foundation of your family helps you get there - essentially thanking her. He turns over a new leaf looking forward to the future and right at end says everything is great, it is a whole new world. I don't see how that can possibly mean they are still in same pattern of Malcolm being stuck in the 'I have no control of my own life' victimhood he always had.

    The perfect contrast is the episode "Malcolm visits College". In that one he basically gives up at the end and goes into despair as Lois essentially says she will continue to run his life. It is exactly the opposite of what we see in graduation as she gets him to snap out of it and take control of his life. Malcolm's blank stare when he doesnt awnser to 'Tell me you can't do it', is him realizing he can take control of his own life and do anything. He can stop being a child/victim who just whines and complains about the things he can't control in life.

  8. #28
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    Malcolm would be a complete idiiot to to fall for Lois's load of rant. Why should he change his WHOLE LIFE just because of the TOTALLY OVER THE TOP expectations Lois and Hal have?

    Lois IS running Malcolm's life for him, and anyone who says she isn't needs to go back and watch the series again. I've said it before and I'll say it again, throughout the series Lois was making decisions for Malcolm that are NOT hers to make, for example Going totally psycho because OMG Malcolm had the AUDACITY to have a girlfriend (Malcolm's Girlfriend) that SHE didn't choose (Stilts); MAKING Malcolm work with her at Lucky Aide so he'd be under her constant supervision, and now trying to decide the career Malcolm WILL have.

    And maybe Malcolm would have been able to go to Harvard and have the NORMAL life of a College student WITHOUT having to work like a slave to come up with the money if Lois hadn't selfishly BLOWN the money he was GIVEN specifically for furthering his education! It would have been different if they'd kept it to actually put it towards that! And if it wasn't for Hal's similar recklessness in "Stupid Girl", they could have had $1000 for when Dewey went to College (which he would have).

    And Malcolm also received that letter in "Baby" telling him he was accepted into that private school with a full scholarship. Hal might have made Malcolm THINK the reason he wouldn't let him go was because Malcolm "was their only hope", when the real reason would have been because they couldn't possibly let him go somewhere where they couldn't control his life for him!

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alle View Post
    Also, for a "bookworm", he sure seems able to find the time to do other things with his life.
    Is he a bookworm by choice or by force? I think he's naturally smart, not that he appreciates or wants to be smart.

    I also completely agree with what Amigo says. We know Lois is less than happy with how her own life turned out and she is trying to relive her bad decisions through Malcolm. She tried with Francis and that just didn't work; Malcolm's the only moldable one in the family.
    Last edited by yardgames; Jun 2, 2007 at 01:06 PM.

  10. #30
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    Yes, Malcolm is moldable, and yes Lois is a control freak. You guys are missing that it isn't just Lois that controls his life. He is like a lemming who never asserts himself. He follows whoever he his with or tries to impress whoever he thinks likes him. He even obsesses about what perfect strangers think of him. "All I want is somebody to like me" -Block party.

    Over the years Lois repeatedly tried to warn him about this and he never listens. In long drive she specifically warned him about not going through college and all through your 20's and being in unhealthy relationships just to prove to yourself you are likeable. Go back to Malcolm's Job - she tries to get him to realize she is his mother and she is never going to change. It has to be up to him to grow up. Graduation was like a shock treatment to make him realize he was becoming an adult. Lois won't be there anymore. It was now or never that he is going to take control of his life and stop that destructive behavior. The indication at the end of the series is that he got the message...but the fans didn't.

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