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Thread: Who's smarter? Dewey or Malcolm?

  1. #71

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    Can I just ask, Yardgames, that if you read my entire post before responding? Because if you did, you would know better than to basically state that Dewey failed the test on his own ability. If the failure was intentional, then obviously the test results don't mean squat anyway, since it was a planned failure. On the otherhand, I personally don't need I.Q. test scores to tell me how clever someone is.
    Last edited by Wildcat; Jun 23, 2007 at 11:02 PM.



  2. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alle View Post
    List of episodes involving Dewey one-upping Malcolm:
    1)Convention
    2)Army Buddy
    3)Blackout
    4)A.A.
    5)Hal's Dentist
    What we really need to see is Dewey outsmarting Malcolm. Not just beating him, because that can be done by Reese or by his parents or by many others. Actually outsmarting him - smarts vs smarts, and Dewey coming out on top.

    1) I can not see this as a display of intelligence, really I think that what is more on display is that Malcolm and Reese both fail miserably at relating to females, and Dewey still has his cuteness on his side. So, Dewey wins by being cute.

    2) Again, this is not a battle of intelligence. Dewey is clearly the more rational of the two, and Malcolm has issues that allow him to have a low price on his self esteem - but that is a common idea with Malcolm.

    3) More of Malcolm's failing with relating to women Now, how "smart" is it really to drug someone? With ready-to-apply drugged sauces? No, not a display of smarts.

    4) This is a better example - but seriously, short of working together (which would have been a simple solution: "Lets drop Dewey off first"), how could they have won? It also highlights Malcolm's obsession and desire to do destruction

    5) not really a good example of one-upping, as Malcolm was so zoned out to begin with Its more an example of great strength - moving both mattresses and Malcolm whilst keeping Malcolm asleep...so, should we assume that Dewey is stronger than Reese from this episode? Has it been 'left up to the viewer to work it out"?


    Anyway, I am still on season three in my rewatch, where it is still very obvious that Dewey is not a competitor for Malcolm's smarts. Although, some of your examples, Convention and Dewey's Dog, do come from that era!

    Remember that in Dewey's Dog, not only was it not a smart thing to bring home the stray dog, but he 'beat' his brothers simply by force/strength, and Reese 'outsmarted' him in regards to the roast! Finally, they were able to get rid of the dog, and won in the end - does this mean that Reese is also smarter than Dewey?

    There was also a cold opener in S3 where Reese and malcolm were catching a ball, with Dewey trying to join in. When it went in the gutter, they convinced him to go in, promising that they would let him join. But they didn't. And Malcolm mentions that they had done this over 50 times. Clearly, this is not a point in favour of the Dewey-is-super-smart camp

  3. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alle View Post
    Neither one's knowledge or interest of science or music is more important than the other.
    Absolutely I am not trying to rank the importance of one ability over another!

    This is about individuals, not which field of expertise is superior. It would be ignorant to assume that scientists are automatically smarter than musicians simply by mere virtue of what they know about.
    But this I strongly disagree with. If the musician cannot do any science, and the scientist cannot do any music, then I would say the scientist is smarter than the musician. Because music is not about being smart.

    You can be smart and do well with music, you can be not smart, and still do well with music. You can be smart and do well with science. but if you are not smart, you will not do well with science.

    This is very general speaking, but the basic idea is there.

    It was not within his right to persuade him to fail, and should have kept his reservations to himself. If I was Dewey, I would have definately told Malcolm to shove those answers up his arse and to mind his own damn business.
    Even after the "The coolest person in the class was me" line?

    Actually, this could be another point in favour of Dewey not being so super smart! If you were so smart, surely you would want to be in a situation to help that?

  4. #74

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    Quote Originally Posted by hvg3akaek View Post
    What we really need to see is Dewey outsmarting Malcolm. Not just beating him, because that can be done by Reese or by his parents or by many others. Actually outsmarting him - smarts vs smarts, and Dewey coming out on top.

    1) I can not see this as a display of intelligence, really I think that what is more on display is that Malcolm and Reese both fail miserably at relating to females, and Dewey still has his cuteness on his side. So, Dewey wins by being cute.

    2) Again, this is not a battle of intelligence. Dewey is clearly the more rational of the two, and Malcolm has issues that allow him to have a low price on his self esteem - but that is a common idea with Malcolm.

    3) More of Malcolm's failing with relating to women Now, how "smart" is it really to drug someone? With ready-to-apply drugged sauces? No, not a display of smarts.

    4) This is a better example - but seriously, short of working together (which would have been a simple solution: "Lets drop Dewey off first"), how could they have won? It also highlights Malcolm's obsession and desire to do destruction

    5) not really a good example of one-upping, as Malcolm was so zoned out to begin with Its more an example of great strength - moving both mattresses and Malcolm whilst keeping Malcolm asleep...so, should we assume that Dewey is stronger than Reese from this episode? Has it been 'left up to the viewer to work it out"?


    Anyway, I am still on season three in my rewatch, where it is still very obvious that Dewey is not a competitor for Malcolm's smarts. Although, some of your examples, Convention and Dewey's Dog, do come from that era!

    Remember that in Dewey's Dog, not only was it not a smart thing to bring home the stray dog, but he 'beat' his brothers simply by force/strength, and Reese 'outsmarted' him in regards to the roast! Finally, they were able to get rid of the dog, and won in the end - does this mean that Reese is also smarter than Dewey?

    There was also a cold opener in S3 where Reese and malcolm were catching a ball, with Dewey trying to join in. When it went in the gutter, they convinced him to go in, promising that they would let him join. But they didn't. And Malcolm mentions that they had done this over 50 times. Clearly, this is not a point in favour of the Dewey-is-super-smart camp

    1)My point there was that at the tender age of six, Dewey actually realizes that having a hot woman warming to him was not an opportunity to be wasted. The scene at the end of "Convention" where Reese and Malcolm threatened to torch his teddybear, instead of naively running to save it, he simply locked all the doors in the house, looked at them with that smug 'f**k you' expression on his face, and got back into bed with Vicky.

    2) I don't care how low his self-esteem is, Malcolm could have just refused to agree to publically humiliate himself for small amounts of cash. Also, despite having those comics in his possession for years, he didn't bother to look into the possibility of selling them and maybe finding out that one of them alone was worth several grand. One gets the impression that he had them in room for years and hadn't even read them let alone explore their market value. This is of course speculation, but then again why else would he blithely give them away on a whim?

    3) It wasn't merely the fact he drugged everyone in his family to get some time alone with the Dutch girls, but everyone else had a scheme in motion and no one factored him into their plans. Dewey was the wild-card. He initiatally wanted something very simple that night, but Hal cancelled it in favour of something else, and Dewey gets largely ignored whenever he protests. Then along comes Malcolm and his Dutch trio, Dewey takes stock of the situation. Reese and Malcolm plan on a kinky evening with their secret guests, Hal, Lois and Francis are too pre-occupied with what their doing. Well, Dewey reckons, perhaps everyone should enjoy Reese's drugged laced food. He turned a convoluted situation like this to his advantage. You can talk all you want about Malcolm's lack of skill with the ladies, but I personally call that using your head.

    4)Malcolm and Reese could have just dropped him off to the damn arcade and then go off on their path of hijinks and vandalism. But whenever they dismiss or threaten Dewey, they only create a new problem for themselves. It simply never occurs to them to placate him with something so mundane and effortless. By being rude and condescending, they provoke him to scupper their plans and run them around in circles, which of course proves more enjoyable for Dewey then what he originally planned. No matter what they try to do with him, he always seems to have an ace up his sleeve. A.A. does highlight Malcolm and Reese's desire for destruction, but also showcases Dewey's cleverness in turning their desires against them.

    5)Actually, my point with that episode was that Malcolm totally bought what Dewey told him that not only had he slept for a couple of days (well technically he had) but also the whole mattress thing was a dream. Well, at least it shows how smooth a liar Dewey is. But how silly was Malcolm for thinking he can spend his days sleeping in that bed. I guess Dewey has stronger will power as well. As for how he moved such a heavy mattress without disturbing Malcolm, well, if he can squeeze himself in a very small box and vanish before the very eyes of dozens of onlookers in the middle of a crowded street, then I suppose theres not much he can't do.

    6) Dewey was still living in his own little childhood dream-world in season three. And long before the shows writing team decided to confirm that he was a genius.

    7) Moments after Malcolm and Reese found out about ' Marshmellow's ' existance in "Dewey's Dog" they tried to get Dewey canned for it, but thwarted their intentions by taking the fall for his dogs mess. He doesn't care so much about getting into trouble, as long as he can keep the pitbull's presence a secret. And at what point did Reese outwit Dewey over the pot-roast? I don't recall that happening.

    8) Again, Dewey was still living in his O.L.C.D.W. Plus he doesn't have any regular friends, his flippant brothers were all he had.

    9) You still assume that Dewey can't do science. Neither of us truely knows that. But I at least have pointed out examples suggesting that he might, whereas you have no proof whatsoever that he's incapable. Need I remind of the occasion when he successfully jerry-rigged a piano, as well as the time he broke down the basics of the Doppler Effect so a fellow student could understand it?

    10) Other then wanting to avoid being like Malcolm, even Dewey isn't immune to lapses of judgement. Although those things seem to come naturally for your boy Malcolm.

  5. #75

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    The writers created the show therefore any information they omitted is not set in stone, so we can all argue about who's smarter until the cows come home. Me, I still think Malcolm is smarter, Dewey is also very smart but not as much as Malcolm. And as for wisdom none of them are, otherwise they wouldn't get into so much trouble and do stupid things, furthermore, they are only little children, only adults CAN be wise. Children cannot, it is impossible unless there's a magic force or if they had autism (maybe). Wisdom comes with years etc....
    Malcolm in the Middle Rules!

  6. #76

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    Nothing was omitted, the writers dropped hints and created situations that showcased his abilities. And all those things add up to one conclusion. And they're hardly little children. Reese and Malcolm were in their late teens while Dewey was on the cusp of adolescence. And given how well he calculates and predicts the reactions of his elders in the later episodes, coupled with his attitude towards them, wisdom often springs to mind there. He is often shown to be wiser than most adults he comes across, maybe you can tell me why that is? Plus, I doubt that "autism" is a factor in this. Of course, as he is a child, the temptation to do reckless childish things will often prove to strong to resist.

  7. #77
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    malcolm through the whole series has been the boy genius and as we've seen in the last few seasons of the show dewey really manipulated reese, i would have love to see him manipulate malcolm. i think that it would be pretty ironic if dewey ended up manipulating malcolm without malcolm's knowledge, i doubt malcolm would even find out, since malcolm has been the genius it would have been great to see the 165 iq malcolm be taken time and time again by a different sort of genius, well he could be a musical and traditional sense genius we don't know since he never took the test but all we know is he is a musical and i guess you could say common sense genius, work his magic of manipulation.

  8. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by backfence View Post
    malcolm through the whole series has been the boy genius and as we've seen in the last few seasons of the show dewey really manipulated reese, i would have love to see him manipulate malcolm. i think that it would be pretty ironic if dewey ended up manipulating malcolm without malcolm's knowledge, i doubt malcolm would even find out, since malcolm has been the genius it would have been great to see the 165 iq malcolm be taken time and time again by a different sort of genius, well he could be a musical and traditional sense genius we don't know since he never took the test but all we know is he is a musical and i guess you could say common sense genius, work his magic of manipulation.

    Dewey has manipulated Malcolm several times. Right now I can think of at least two times in season seven - Army Buddy where he made Malcolm do all those crazy things to get his money back and A.A. where he manipulated Malcolm (and Reese) when they thought that he had they key to the car. He also manipulated the whole family in Blackout. Then he manipulated Malcolm and Reese in Dewey's Dog way back in season 3 where he made them dress up like women and sing to him. Those are just a few of the examples that I can think of right now. As I've said before, Malcolm may be a genius when it comes to "book knowledge", but Dewey definitely has talent when it comes to getting people to do what he wants
    .

  9. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wildcat View Post
    Dewey has manipulated Malcolm several times. Right now I can think of at least two times in season seven - Army Buddy where he made Malcolm do all those crazy things to get his money back and A.A. where he manipulated Malcolm (and Reese) when they thought that he had they key to the car. He also manipulated the whole family in Blackout. Then he manipulated Malcolm and Reese in Dewey's Dog way back in season 3 where he made them dress up like women and sing to him. Those are just a few of the examples that I can think of right now. As I've said before, Malcolm may be a genius when it comes to "book knowledge", but Dewey definitely has talent when it comes to getting people to do what he wants
    well in army buddy basically malcolm wanted the money, i mean it's manipulating him with malcolm realizing it, he just wants the money, in the end hes lost his dignity but got back his money. in a.a he was very crafty, but i can remember dewey manipulating (just out of reese's sheer stupidity) reese to do his "bidding" basically. in the blackout he outsmarts the whole family, although reese confessed to having drugged malcolm before so i don't really see that as an accomplishment, i wish the bulk of the last few seasons had been dewey relating to malcolm in a superior way.

    dewey really learned the craft almost too well from his brothers, he was a wonderful student which i think helped him to be a wonderful teacher to the kids in his special needs class. he has taken a bit from each of his siblings, as shown in the blackout by drugging his family after getting the idea from reese, although in the later seasons he was put in a place of "power" over the family (secretly), we still see him learning from his brothers without their knowledge, when you think about it what the writers did with the dewey character is really pretty amazing, he took over the family in a way very subtly so no one would notice and made anyone do whatever he wanted as shown time and time again in almost every episode of the later seasons.

    in the beginning of the series he was like a bud/sponge learning from his brothers but the brothers didn't even realize it and just used him basically, he finally takes on a new role in the later seasons and becomes the most dangerous threat in the house, he's taken skills from each of his brothers and has been conditioned to be the super crafty, smart, and sneaky kid we know by the end of the series. we get a little insight into jamie's future by watching dewey prepare him for life in the wilkerson's house, we see as dewey teaches jamie the ropes and is also the only brother to treat him with a little respect, as refered to in an episode "break the cycle" which dewey declines to do but basically takes in jamie as his pupil later on.

    in dewey's dog he manipulated them but by force and had the foresight to know that he better make the best of this because once his parents get home the dogs gone and malcolm and reese would show him no mercy. the craig aspect was pretty funny, he's so spineless and seeing him dressed like that made me think that by his actions he might as well wear that everyday and i wouldn't notice , harsh but that's how i feel about craig, he had as little control/power as the boys did.
    Last edited by backfence; Jul 22, 2007 at 12:12 PM.

  10. #80

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    While Malcolm may have been aware of his circumstances to start with in "Army Buddy", his callowness is what made him lose sight of the fact that Dewey was toying with his pride. Manipulation doesn't always imply that the victim is unaware of whats happening to them.

    In "A.A." after doing all they can to persuade Dewey to surrender the car-key to them, they were so desperate for it, precious time was running out, Reese and Malcolm didn't think to explore the possibility that Dewey may be lying to them, which he did. As fun as time at the arcade might have been, he clearly was enjoying himself with his mindgames.

    The situation in "Blackout" was that something very simple was denied to him. He only wanted freaking cereal for dinner one evening, only Hal had other ideas superseding Dewey's. So upon learning that everyone had different, conflicting plans, he took matters into his own hands and spiked Reese's food. One would have thought that they realized by now that snubbing Dewey and rubbing his face in it carries its own penalties.

    Dewey has evolved from the cute, credulous family underdog, to the most formidable master of psychological warfare ever born. He puts everyone in the shade. Never f**k with Dewey.

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