Motivational Seminar

NeCoHo

Retired Mod
I came upon a thought when I read

appanah said:
just suddenly change from the scene generally to Malcolm addressing his audience. Despite the fact that he hasn’t done it much lately, but apparently he does it in the latest episode, which to me, can only be a good thing.
Maybe this whole, camera thing is kind of dual purposed. At first Malcolm was introducing his family, and the way he lives, but now, we all know his family, and his life. Maybe he doesn't need to anymore, because we know how hhis family works already.


Congradulations on your first test appanah! I guess that is a sucess.
 

Ekkostar

New member
Spoiler for Caution: Review May Contain Spoilers:
This is one of the best first-run episodes that I have seen this year. I was suprised that Hal got an A-plot. I found his the most interesting of the three. He finally gains some control of his own... if only for a while.
Hal became such a motivational guru that I was suprised that there wasn't a scene featuring him hawking books and tapes on a QVC or HSN-type shopping channel near the end.
The show's creative have obviously watched enough Tony Robbins infomercials. They've got Hal imitating him right down to the headset, suspenders and explosive proactive syrenergy attitude (I've never used so many buzzwords in one sentence... am I pitching Poochie?).

I found the whole "Dewey cheats on Lois" subplot to be a bit surreal, even for a Malcolm episode. What is with Lois lately, anyway? Consulting parenting books? Acting odd about her kid "cheating" on her? I think she's heading for a breakdown. This isn't the Lois that we know and possibly love.

Finally, the "Reese goes to the dogs" subplot. Have the writers run out of so many fresh pranks for Reese to pull that they now have him going on wacky misadventures?
 

yardgames

Retired Administrator
I have a lot to say here, so forgive me if my post seems like a scatterbrain.

First off, appanah, you changed your signature again. It's crazy. Back on topic, I found your test to be quite interesting indeed. I think that it's better you use people who studied the same thing as you and have the same type of education. In an experiment, there should only be on variable; in this case, you knew about the show, and your friends didn't. Very well conducted. As far as the conference room, that was obviously the best you can do, and I doubt you would have seen a substantial difference in the results, unless you placed the participants in separate rooms. Were they allowed to communicate with each other during the experiment?

Secondly, I don't know if I'm allowed to discuss the content of the episode yet, so stop reading if you haven't seen it yet. You mentioned the dysfunctional family and the concept of how they still have meals together. One thing I've always said about the Wilkersons is that no matter how dysfunctional they are, they are still united. There are certainly plenty of signs for this throughout the series, one of my favorite being Family Reunion. I think it is this same concept that causes the family to eat together. In fact, Lois talked about it wtih the Crazy Lady in Company Picnic. "You have to be home at 6:30 every night. Not 6:35, not 6:32. 6:30." I think that's a principle in the family.

Next, and this concerns Ekkostar's reply as well, the Dewey/Lois plot was fantastic. Certainly it was surreal, but in the current state of affairs at the house, I don't think it was too surreal. Jamie has been pushing Lois over the age lately, more than every baby since Reese, as we're led to believe, and she's feeling quite hopeless. In some ways, I think she wants a perfect cross of a baby that's somewhere between Malcolm and Dewey, but she can't figure out how to get Jamie to do that, and that is frustrating her. Hence her reaction to Dewey's "seeing another mother." I found that scene quite dramatic, ironic, and comical, and applaud the writers there.

There is in fact much more to the motivational seminar than your note-takers mentioned, and I find it interesting they didn't discuss to any degree the actual seminar. Hal ingeniusly became the leader of the group, placing himself in an uncomfortable situation which of course Bryan Cranston played brilliantly. The brilliant ending foreshadowed Hal losing his job again.

Finally, the Reese line was certainly the bottom part of this plot, but I still found it quite original and entertaining. It showed Reese's emotional side with animals; first the butterflies, now dogs. Maybe he could combine his two talents and cook for animals at a zoo after he graduates high school.

The scene where Reese and Malcolm were talking at the end was very emotional. I almost found myself wanting to reach out and assure Reese it was going to be ok, as he suddenly took ahold of himself. The acting in this scene by Frankie and Justin was very well done and natural.

Appanah, I am looking forward to reading your analysis after you view the episode yourself. This was an interesting twist, and I'm glad you did it.
 

Ekkostar

New member
Well, I know that people in other countries that come on here haven't seen the episode yet or downloaded it from a torrent or P2P, so I had to keep from spoiling it for others.

I think that the show is starting to get odd in this next to last season, and not in the way of seasons past. It's better to be honest than gush about the whole thing like you genuinely enjoyed it. I'll admit, both the B and C plot sucked. They didn't make me laugh. Areas of the show aren't naturally foolish as they once were. The newer episodes will never be as funny as the old ones. Take in example: Wings after Lowell Mather left.
The chemestry on the show is slowly dissolving, and I hate to say it, but I feel that it's starting to be about greed and not the show. It should have been canceled at the end of this season. I don't really want another outcome like The Simpsons in which I actually dislike a show I once enjoyed because of the staff's greed for money and wanting to make it the longest running animated show in TV history.

If this place is going to be full of people who analyze rather than enjoy the show, I'll have to leave. It's people like you on the internet who drive me crazy. I'm sorry, but I feel that you, like the fans of Sideways look far too into things.
Those fans of Sideways are what drove me from all the excitement I had for the film. I no longer like it because the fans ruined it with their extreme nitpicking.

I wasn't expecting ANYBODY to even read my post because my writing is so mundane and this thread is obviously far above my head.

I'm never going to post in one of these recap threads again.
 

Wemboy

New member
Well that's told you boys hasn't it:) . We discussed this in another thread, but i have to say that really i think Ekkostar is missing the point here. There isn't a division between enjoying the show and analysing it. In fact, analysing a show (or book, film, poem, piece of music etc.) allows one to gain greater enjoyment from it than merely taking it at face value. You gain an understanding and appreciation of the show that you simply don't get otherwise. I agree that there's a balance to be struck and sometimes you have to just sit back and (in the case of MITM) laugh at the show, but it would be folly to just leave it at that and neglect the other aspects of the series. Lastly, i thought the whole point of the forums was to discuss MITM, with like minded people who have a knowledge and appreciation of it that allows you to find out more than just what the tv guide, or the official site can tell you.
 

yardgames

Retired Administrator
It doesn't bother me at all, it's just so weird that every day you seem to have a new signature. I wish I had as much time as you. I actually liked the last time I tried something for the first time one, but it is after all, your signature.

Ahh, but we're off topic again, aren't we?

Ekkostar, I have a reply to your post. To be blunt, I found it downright rude. It seemed to me like you didn't want your post read, and if this was the case, I beg to ask why you wrote it in the first place? I thank you for your opinions, but if you didn't enjoy it, why is it necessary for you to speak for the rest of us? I'm not lying when I say I throughly enjoyed the episode. I thought it was funny, and I laughed during it. Once the episode is done, I enjoy coming to the forums, and not just seeing what others thought about it, but also seeing how others interpreted it. I certainly hope to see your reactions again, but next time, can we please respect others' opinions, as well?
 

SaD_bUt_TrUe16

New member
i guess i'm the only one who liked the reese plot... tho extremely strange it was funny and it gives us more insight into the complexities of reese (tho that sounds like a joke, i'm not kidding)... Reese and Malcolm both throughout the show have wanted to fit in and be liked... that's y reese beats up ppl because he is afraid of them disliking him or something the same for malcolm and his sarcastic and mean treatment of ppl (this was adressed in the ep where stevie, dewey and them r in the sewer {i think reese sees kitty naked in that ep})... but i mean reese even said about how with the dogs he knew his place... but what i loved was how when he was the leader he got them in trouble... i mean tho it defeats how b4 reese said he was beginning to grow up bcuz he was 18 (it wasn't exactly like that)

Spoiler for spoiler...:
i especially loved the part where reese was yelling at the postman... it was classic...


but neways i understand why a couple of appanah's "subjects" (should i call them that? idk) liked this ep, cuz it was a good ep, but of u've seen all the eps between the pilot and this one, u have even better eps to compare it to... plus some of the sub-plots weren't exactly in character, such as lois wasn't as much of an authoritarian...(did i spell that right?)... neways that's my opinion...
 

Emrysgirl

New member
PHP:
i guess i'm the only one who liked the reese plot

No, you're not. I loved it:). It was very original. It connects back to the "Can you understand dogs?" line from one of the early eps. I do, however feel that we are seeing too much 'soft' Reese in the recent episodes.


The Dewey/Lois plot has been done before (in other shows, not MitM). However, the writers handled it very well and actually made it interesting. I don't think Lois' reaction was as much evidence of double standards as just a reflection of the odd nature of Dewey's action. It's not so much that her rules and "standards" change, and more that two of her standards are in conflict (not getting a tatoo vs having the boys express their love). Most people would react the same way initially. However, I believe their feeling of appreciation would pass quicker. Perhaps it took Lois so long b/c of her recent doubt in her parenting skills:confused:.


I felt Lois' 'breakdown': "I obviously don't know anything about parenting," "What's wrong with these boys?" was very out of character. It is particularly surprising considering that neither Malcolm nor Reese was doing anything to upset her, apart from the minor yearbook argument. Lois has, in previous episodes, been shown to favor Dewey. Was this outburst brought on just by him? Or is it because, while Malcolm, Reese and Francis have all done terrible things, none of them has ever been disloyal?


I didn't much enjoy Hal's plot. This may be because I dislike motivational speakers a lot. Hal's plot matched his character in that he has always been the calm, optimistic parent (and family member, for that matter). However, at times, Hal the motivational speaker was a lot more confident and authoritative than usual. This may be because he found out what he was good at.


It was strange to see Lois weaken while Hal gained self-confidence.


No Francis, very little Malcolm!:(
 

Emrysgirl

New member
Ps. - Appanah, love the signature. I'm a big fan of DNA's. I'm actually writinga paper on him today (although its pretty elementry since its in German).
 

KB

New member
I liked all three plots, although Reese's reminded me of the Seinfeld where Kramer acts like a dog after taking dog medicine for his cough (culminating in a coughing fit when he's summoning the police for help, so that they have to guess what he's saying, like Lassie). MITM took it in a different direction though, and it worked for me and was very funny.

Hal's plot does a good job of parodying motivational speakers. I love his meaningless made-up buzzwords that the crowd eats up. I didn't like the weird moments where he turned into a tyrant, not allowing people to go to the bathroom or forcing the guy with the bad back to allow himself to get stood on. They felt out of character and too mean. But maybe the point was that Hal had to be stopped.

Lois and Dewey's bit was very sharply written, especially "It's just snacks" and "You won't be getting any cake for a long time" ... "I wasn't expecting any." My girlfriend and I wondered if Dewey selling his keyboard will be part of continuity or whether he'll have it back by the next episode. I assume he'll just have it back.
 

NeCoHo

Retired Mod
I really liked this episode. maybe it's the fact that I do reese for the jornals, but That was my favorite part.

Lois did nothing to stop his obsession with the dogs because she was fighting with Dewey. While Hal was away the family drifted into chaos, like a post i another thread I said that MITM is a well-tuned machine, when one part is taken out, it breaks down into little bite-sized pieces :D , in this case, Dewey goe to be "seeing another mom", Reese joined a pack of dogs, Lois did nothing to stop this and Malcolm possibly went into hiding from Reese and Lois, as why he was never seen very much.
 

tjpeople

Site Administrator
Staff member
I like hal's plot the best he is the funniest charector. The whole episden was greate even thought malcolm did little.

The experimanet idea appanah was great and could definatly be done/improved again. I was wondering what other on your course are doing and if they do similar things?
 

Emrysgirl

New member
In the summary it says about the cold opener - "This is the first time in a long time we have seen Malcolm talk to the camera. "

But, it isn't:confused:. In Ida's dance, he explained that Dewey and he had figured a way to get around being deaf. In No Motorcycles he told us that Francis and Piama wre coming to visit and explained Hal's excitement:).
 

yardgames

Retired Administrator
I have definitely enjoyed that. You may have seen a few of my rants complaining that Malcolm never talks to the camera anymore. I have been much happier in that department lately.
 

Dewey

Minimalistic
I have a major criticism about MITM and their changing use of acting ability and production values. It is something I have noticed before in previous episodes, but seemed more obvious in Motivational Seminar.

I’m referring to the lack of naturalism, and an approach which is seemingly more choreographed. I’m specifically looking at the ways in which the characters enter and leave a room. In one particular scene for example, we see Hal leave, then Dewey enters and speaks with Lois. Only as he its down does Reese enter and says something. Then when Reese finishes his line, Malcolm enters. The timing is in precision and well synchronisied.

To me, this seems very uniform, and it takes away the random sense of chaos associated with family life; to which MITM prided itself on throughout the early seasons. It is now almost as if only one thing can occur on the screen at a time. It never used to be like this. I always thought that MITM was about challenging discourse boundaries and defying convention. It is seemingly going down the direction of simply becoming another sit-com.

Does any one else here agree with my claims, or am I as always overlooking things?
 

KB

New member
The storylines have been so surreal lately I haven't noticed the lack of naturalism in the staging. I have noticed that a lot of the peripheral sets have been very simple and under-decorated--Ida's senior center and the Motivational Seminar room, for instance.
 
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