Thanksgiving

Dewey

Minimalistic
I have had an idea of commencing discussions based around MITM episodes. The episode 'Thanksgiving' has recently aired in UK, so the fisrt one will be based on that episode. I may also try to think of something for the three installments, of previous weeks.

The general idea is to open the episodes up to the public sphere so the audience are able to become part of the discourse.

MF
 

Dewey

Minimalistic
Re: Themed MITM discussion: Thanksgiving

As Thanksgiving featured Malcolm experiencing the negative aspects of drinking too much, I was thinking that perhaps we could share our stories relating to alcohol consuption. The more funny and/or embarrasing your tales, the better.

Also, in this particular episode, malcolm was an underaged drinker. Maybe you have an interesting story of underage drinking also. (As far as I am aware, this site will maintain your amonymity)

Or maybe, if you do not drink, you may have an interesting story relating to a previous 'Thanksgiving' or other family celebration....What happened?

So, if you have an interesting tale, we'd like to hear about it....
 

yardgames

Retired Administrator
Re: Themed MITM discussion: Thanksgiving

My father is an alcoholic. Alcohol is not a pleasant thing--it's just as bad as smoking; it just doesn't get the same negative publicity.
 
Just to comment on the eppisode itself, I didnt think it was all that good, it wasnt as funny as many of the mitm epps, so i was a bit dissapointed with it.
 

NeCoHo

Retired Mod
Re: Themed MITM discussion: Thanksgiving

Dewey said:
Or maybe, if you do not drink, you may have an interesting story relating to a previous 'Thanksgiving' or other family celebration....What happened?
One thanksgiving, at least 4 yers ago, the power went out. my family, aunts uncles, cousins and grandparents, ate to candle light and listened to a battery powered radio for multiple hours.

twice, last year and three years ago, the christmas tree fell on me at my grandparent's house. not fun. broke a few glass bulbs.:rolleyes:

(note: using smilie as "oh well", not sarcastic)
 

Emrysgirl

New member
1) My birthday would have been on thanksgiving last year, but it was a leap year.

2) I used to love power outages when I was little. But now I find them boring.

3)Doesn't this per episode discussion already exist on the other site (episode guide)? Having a separate thread for each of the hundread and twenty some episodes might be a bit excessive.
 

Dewey

Minimalistic
Emrysgirl said:
Doesn't this per episode discussion already exist on the other site (episode guide)? Having a separate thread for each of the hundread and twenty some episodes might be a bit excessive.
Thats true. Its kind of why its more of a public sphere debate rather than an episode discussion. In other words, its more about ourselves rather than discussing what happened in the episode itself.

If it doesn't work out, then I shall stop.
 

arach

New member
I have pretty many embarassing stories around alcohol, but I don't think you want to hear them. And I don't want to tell them either. :D

And we don't even celebrate Thanksgiving around here.
 
@Dewey, I feel the 'sexual references' within the eppisode are there to reflect adolescence and the fact that the viewers have followed the boys as they grow through their teens, if you look at earlier eppisodes, it may be the case that neither reese or malcolm are involved in any sexual reference or senario, but there are numerous cases involving Lois and Hal, as well as events involving Francis, bear in mind in this eppisode, Malcolm is the same age as Francis in the first season. I underdstand the parallel to A Christmas Carol, however I don't think you can state there is an heir of innocence to youth society, as Dewey is pretending to be a character, suffering from a terminal illeness, thus playing on the emotions and consience of an innocent individual to gain an insignificant item. In addition to this, I don't feel that Dewey is necessarily alluding to the character from Christmas Carol (Tiny Tim), as at no point in the novel is any diologue or reference made to tiny tim speaking to a character in an attempt to get something. Therefore, I in fact think that the viewer is not supposed to feel that Dewey is utilising this character, but in fact the writers are using the character to demonstrate the often wicked nature of the character and his actaul lack of innocence, which is highlighted to a greater extent by placing his character in juxtaposition with Tiny Tim- a character that evokes empathy and demonstrates innocence, rather than Dewey activley using this character to his advantage.

I think Ive used the word character too many times :D
 

NeCoHo

Retired Mod
Deweyrules! said:
@Dewey, I feel the 'sexual references' within the eppisode are there to reflect adolescence and the fact that the viewers have followed the boys as they grow through their teens, if you look at earlier eppisodes, it may be the case that neither reese or malcolm are involved in any sexual reference or senario, but there are numerous cases involving Lois and Hal, as well as events involving Francis, bear in mind in this eppisode, Malcolm is the same age as Francis in the first season.
Althugh a touchy subject. I feel the writers portrayed that underage drinking and sex are morally wrong through they way Malcolm accepted the former, but disapproved the latter of the two. And true, he was never "Mom's golden boy" anymore from that episode on. Maybe Lois lost trust in him, he never had it easy after that, really. But maybe, she gained just a bit of trust for Malcolm, because he didn't "take advantage of a drunk chic" as Francis put it.

Deweyrules! said:
I underdstand the parallel to A Christmas Carol, however I don't think you can state there is an heir of innocence to youth society, as Dewey is pretending to be a character, suffering from a terminal illeness, thus playing on the emotions and consience of an innocent individual to gain an insignificant item. In addition to this, I don't feel that Dewey is necessarily alluding to the character from Christmas Carol (Tiny Tim), as at no point in the novel is any diologue or reference made to tiny tim speaking to a character in an attempt to get something. Therefore, I in fact think that the viewer is not supposed to feel that Dewey is utilising this character, but in fact the writers are using the character to demonstrate the often wicked nature of the character and his actaul lack of innocence, which is highlighted to a greater extent by placing his character in juxtaposition with Tiny Tim- a character that evokes empathy and demonstrates innocence, rather than Dewey activley using this character to his advantage.
Tiny Tim never acted sick and poor to get stuff, he wasporr and sick, and did Scrooge ever give him anything untill the ghosts visited him? Yes, a hard time. Dewey played tiny Tim, but to a different degree, he didn't want his dad's boss to change, he wanted truffles. cute poor sick kid wants something while people are in the store watching him. He got the truffles. And by the way, I played Scrooge in a Christmas Carol.;)
 

yardgames

Retired Administrator
My first disagreement is your comment on the writers have turned to sex to sell the episode. That was not the point of the episode. The point of Malcolm's part in the episode was a) to demonstrate that Malcolm is a teenager and, like it or not, teens are bound to try drinking at some point. Just because they aren't supposed to is the reason they do. b) to see how Malcolm's principles stood up to "real life." We see Malcolm fighting his principles in a few places throughout the ep. First, to ditch his family on Thanksgiving; second, he didn't originally want to take the beer; third, should he "take advantage of a drunk chick?" c) to build on Malcolm's social status for future episodes. Face it, in seasons 5 and 6, Malcolm is pretty much a loner. He doesn't hang out the Krelboynes, and doesn't seem to see Stevie too often either. He's just kind of settled into a state of depresiion. Maybe this episode is part of the reason: anytime he tries to make friends with anyone, he suffers. So why bother?

As "unappealing" as Malcolm's storyline was, it made up only half of the episode. The other half was "truer" MITM with an emphasis on comedy, rather than on the pains of growing up. You pointed out Reese's misfortune in the kitchen--perhaps the funniest part of the episode. Dewey's charade has been pointed out, but no one has pointed out Hal carrying out every wish of his son. Reese had total control over Hal, because Hal wanted the "perfect Thanksgiving dinner." He didn't trust Reese and the muckfish, but in the end it turned out brilliantly.

Or, ironically, it would have turned out brilliantly if Malcolm hadn't puked in it. Malcolm puking in the turkey wasn't the funny part of the scene. To see the humor, you had to dig deeper and realize that Hal, who had obeyed Reese's every command for the turkey, was now unable to enjoy it.

Finally, J, were you any good as Scrooge? A useless tidbit of information: Frankie's first bit of acting was as Tiny Tim in A Christmas Carol when he was 8 years old. Maybe J is the next big thing!
 

Garbage Kills Megan

parties with your mom
I want to start of by saying that I love the Thanksgiving episode. It's in my top ten.

@Dewey I can't help but feel that you were looking at the episode in the wrong way. A girl wanting to have sex with Malcolm was not a cheap trick to use sex to get people to watch the show. I thought the whole point of the episode was to show an experience that many teenagers have. Malcolm was reluctant, and seemed a little uncomfortable about the whole beer thing. But we know how badly Malcolm wants "normal" friends, and I think the episode really showed what a teenager will do to fit in. To have the main character of the show, the hero, if you will, getting drunk and making out with some girl on a pool table was daring and shocking. I can't think of any other show, well, sitcom, that has dared to show such a thing. But it was great because it was real. This is something many teenagers go through. It showed that even smart kids can do stupid things. It also showed that Malcolm does have strong morals, when he turns down her offer for sex. I also thought Malcolm's comments about the night to Francis were important. Malcolm actually felt that turning her down was a stupid thing to do, which I think showed a lot about how teenage boys think about sex.

No, Malcolm puking in the turkey was not supposed to be funny. Nothing ever goes right for the Wilkersons. They couldn't have the perfect thanksgiving, that's just not how the show goes. Someone had to ruin things. It was an interesting change, because usually it is reese that messes things up, but this time Reese made things good. His wonderful feast made everyone stop fighting. But it was Malcolm that messed things up this time. I thought Malcolms little monologue when he came in was brilliant. It sort of summed up everything that he had been stuggling with that night. It seemed that Malcolm was sick of being "the golden child" which is something that I can personally relate to. Having strong morals all the time is absolutely exhausting. Anyway, I think it was important for Malcolm being drunk to affect his family in such a big way. Just to drive in the point of how stupid he had been.

I also love Reese's plot line in this episode. I'm in culinary school, so I really enjoy that Reese is such a good cook; it's my favorite detail about his character. I love the idea that his food was so good that Hal just couldn't say no to him whenever he tasted it. And I love that the food looks so wonderful that his whole family's mood changes when they see it.
 

NeCoHo

Retired Mod
yardgames said:
Finally, J, were you any good as Scrooge? A useless tidbit of information: Frankie's first bit of acting was as Tiny Tim in A Christmas Carol when he was 8 years old. Maybe J is the next big thing!
well, we did it 3 times, all ad-lib, we studdied the movie, and memeroized the main idea, and altered the words a little. On the third day, I had a high fever, with a top hat, a suit, and throughout over half the play, a heavy over coat, that wasn't fun and left school right after the play. The next week (it was the last day of winter break when we did it) teachers and students came and asked me if I had any acting experience, or if I went took acting lessons, I said 'No, but I was curtain, lights, and prop manager in my 6th grade play with a two sentence total script.' They were amazed They said I could go places. So, yes I think I was very good.
 

NeCoHo

Retired Mod
You never know what next I will reveal myself as.... ;) :D ;)


and to bring his topic back (otherwise, I may need to use my new powers to rename this "Thanksgiving and Justin's life"):

Garbage Kills Megan said:
I thought the whole point of the episode was to show an experience that many teenagers have. Malcolm was reluctant, and seemed a little uncomfortable about the whole beer thing....No, Malcolm puking in the turkey was not supposed to be funny. Nothing ever goes right for the Wilkersons.
first two sentences: true, he wnted to fit in, as many teens do. He knew it was wrong, but he still drank the beer.

second two sentences: almost an oxymoron. Nothing ever goes right, therefore, it was funny, to a certain degree.
 

Garbage Kills Megan

parties with your mom
J. said:
second two sentences: almost an oxymoron. Nothing ever goes right, therefore, it was funny, to a certain degree.
Yes, I was just saying that it wasn't supposed to be funny in a "ha ha, puking in a turkey is funny because it's so gross" kind of way. It was supposed to be a very different kind of funny than the kind of funny that Dewey thought they were going for. That's a confusing sentence. Oh well. Anyway, I really don't think that it was really supposed to be a laugh-out-loud funny moment.
 

Malcoholic

New member
This is a fascinating episode for its ambivalence. My view is basically the same as Garbage Kills Megan's. I'll just add that this is an episode where having no laugh track really helps. In the climax, where Malcolm ruins the feast by puking into the turkey, if you had an audience reaction track, part of the audience would laugh and another would moan in dismay. It's all a matter of how emotionally involved each viewer gets in seeing Reese finally do something right and then having it ruined by Malcolm. Having no laugh track lets individual viewers have their own unique reaction.
 
It's all a matter of how emotionally involved each viewer gets in seeing Reese finally do something right and then having it ruined by Malcolm

I think this is a really interesting point to raise, currently, I have only seen 5 eppisodes of season 5, however this theme has been raised in two- 'Thanksgiving' and 'Malcolm films Reese'. It appears that the writers create a greater level of pathos amongst the audience towards Reese- something which is more common place for Macolm in earlier seasons. In both eppisodes the conventional roles (those established in the previous 4 seasons are switched) as Reese becomes the metaphorical 'good' affected by Macolm who adopts the role of the metaphorical 'evil'. There appears to be no real explanation of this at this stage.
 

yardgames

Retired Administrator
Ahh, you're witnessing the transformation of Malcolm, when he goes through the transformation from social, friendly person, through Goodbye Kitty, to the bitter, hostile outcast that we start to see beginning with Thanksgiving and lasting generally, in some degree, from there on out. We're never told why, except that Malcolm simply becomes depressed and self-absorbed, similar to what we first see in Humilithon.
 
It does seem like downhill from here for Malcolm- I've seen eppisode 1 of series 6 and his 'evil'- for want of a better word, nature appears to climax at the end of season 5
 
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